Take the Career Leap to Your Dream Job with Misha Rubin

Featured Guest

Misha Rubin is a career educator, entrepreneur, and speaker. Until recently he was a Partner at a Big Four management consulting firm, where he spent 15 fruitful years. He managed over hundred-million-dollar worth of projects, advised a countless number of clients and guided hundreds of careers.

His corporate experience, personal quest for meaning and fulfillment, and rigorous study birthed The Career Leap method – a pragmatic, elevating, and actionable process designed for people to obtain clarity about their next career moves.

Apart from providing career transformational programs to individuals and groups, Misha is a musician who recorded a music album (ARE WE READY by Misha Lyuve), an adoptive parent of three, and a board member of Worldwide Orphans.

RESOURCES

The Career Leap, a career transformation program.

Book a free 30-min Career Leap planning session with Misha to explore your possibilities. Unshakable Being podcast listeners save 10% off the program with the code UNSHAKABLE. https://thecareerleap.com/book-your-call

episode transcription

Heather Clark  00:01

Welcome to Unshakable Being, the podcast with inspiration and practical tools for purpose led leaders like you to relieve stress, build resilience, and unlock vitality in your life, body and business. I am Dr. Heather Clark, and I’ll be your host.

Heather Clark  00:18

Hello and welcome back to the show. Today we have on Misha Rubin, he is a career educator, entrepreneur and speaker. And until recently, he was a partner at a big four management consulting firm, where he spent 15 fruitful years, he managed over $100 million worth of projects, advised countless numbers of clients and guided hundreds of careers. Misha, welcome to the show.

Misha Rubin  00:44

Hi, Heather, it’s such a big pleasure to be here with you.

Heather Clark  00:47

Thank you, I am very excited to have you on because the topic that I want to cover today, I’m just gonna launch right in, it’s all about share with us how we can navigate this quickly changing landscape in the workplace as a result of the pandemic.

Misha Rubin  01:07

Amazing, I think it’s such a big topic. And so many people are thinking about this right now. Because when you know such a big shift in this society, that raises a lot of questions for us. For some people, they just got a little bit time to think about it, some some people actually were forced into thinking about itself, some environment of their work changed so much that they and I think it’s just also the time of change is the time of awakening for people.

Misha Rubin  01:34

So it may be the place where I would want to start this conversation. I would like everybody to acknowledge that we’re living and truly unprecedented times. And I will give you like four pieces of evidence of why it’s so amazing. Extraordinary. And this never happened before.

Misha Rubin  01:53

So number one, the remote work. Nobody ever had access to remote work the way we have right now, there are pretty much no geographic boundaries, there probably still some, but the few was there ever been, which creates amazing opportunities, you can live in some little town in the middle of nowhere, and work on wall street or in Silicon Valley.

Misha Rubin  02:17

This is truly possible right now. That’s number one, right? So number two, the shift in society that pandemic and quarantine started just a massive, also social and economic shift, right. And when there is a massive social and economic shift, there clearly a lot of pain, as some of the businesses going away some of the industries transforming. But at the same time, this comes with a lot of opportunities. Because there is a lot of new business models, there isn’t a lot of new business ideas.

Misha Rubin  02:50

There’s a lot of advances in technology, there’s a lot of innovation, there is new industry popping up. So that’s number two. Right? So the first one was access to remote work. The second one, the business transformation, that’s happening. The third one, there’s never been an easier time to start your own business. Like truly when I came up with a career leap idea. I created a website in an hour, I made a posting on Facebook and LinkedIn and got my first three students.

Misha Rubin  03:19

So if you think how little barriers there is to start a business, I’m not saying it’s easy to run your business in no way. I’m but I’m also saying imagine what people have to go through 30 years ago to start their business and compare to what we have right now and, and just be amazed by this time that we’re living in. Right. So that was the third one. And the fourth, this one is so important is access to learning. Just unprecedented.

Misha Rubin  03:47

You can sit on your couch, literally and get an MBA, or get a certification from Ivy League college, or just take courses on Coursera or there is just tons of books and YouTube videos. So the learning, nobody ever had that. So if you combine these four things, I would say if not now when we’ll be going for our dream careers for meaningful fulfilling and careers for things that bring all our talents to the table that bring us satisfaction that they make the type of difference we want to make, if not now when.

Heather Clark  04:27

So I love all of that, but you share about dream careers. What if somebody is in such a stressful situation that they’re simply trying to get by because stress certainly changes how we view the world it changes our perceptions and it really changes how we interact. How would you help someone navigate that?

Misha Rubin  04:44

Right? Well listen, I would say there are several There are several ways so one thing I usually when I work with people I want to say if you really need to make money like if you’re you know your family’s starving. You need to handle that Don’t come to work with me right now.

Misha Rubin  05:01

Because I don’t, what I don’t do is help people to find some quick fixes to their careers, though I do have a lot of ideas of how to make some quick fixes. So if somebody is in that situation, under a lot of stress, while you need to think about how you would free up time, so sometimes people come to me and say, I’m just so busy, I’m just doing so much work, I don’t have time for family, I don’t have time for my hobbies, I don’t have time to think about it.

Misha Rubin  05:28

So that’s usually a symptom, that somebody is not connected to their career value, somebody is not connected to what it is there boundaries are, and somebody who is maybe not skilled to create these boundaries with other people. So that’s something definitely to think about. But to create this new career, Career Career, and to think about it, you kind of need a little bit of space in your life, and you need to prioritize it over some other things.

Heather Clark  05:58

Beautiful. So if someone is in survival mode, it’s like the tools that you’re offering aren’t really going to be terribly useful to them right now.

Misha Rubin  06:08

But the tools would be useful, but not the strategy and the program that I create. But what my advice, the tools that I create is, really, I have a set of tools that create what I call an empowered, impactful humans, this tools for communication, but to learn these tools, and to go through them, you kind of need time and space. So this tools would be useful, but you kind of need time and space.

Misha Rubin  06:31

So if you are in a very stressful situation, my recommendation is for you to plan, how you’re going to create a little room for yourself. So if you want to take on new career, and just start to think about the new beginning, you need to allocate maybe a little bit time, maybe 15 minutes a day to start thinking about it. Maybe you need, you know, it’s not uncommon, but people come to my work and they they create an intermediate really, you know, something that maybe not necessarily their dream job, but something that would allow them to create their next business, for instance. So you can think about those terms.

Heather Clark  07:07

That makes perfect sense. But it’s not the forever job. It’s the job for right now until I do what I really want to do. Are you finding that people are clear on what they really want to do and what their dream career is?

Misha Rubin  07:19

Oh, no, that’s one of the problems, even if the thing they are, it’s very well might be because they haven’t explored everything available to them. And I think there is a lot of disempowering beliefs come in, like, like, I will never make enough money. Like that’s like what or I don’t have the right skills, right, those are common skill believes that come in. And when we talk about skills, for instance, it’s a great example.

Misha Rubin  07:45

Well, till you figure out your career leap, it’s very hard to know what skills you might or might not need. So and but unless you’re doing a really thorough job examining, you know, what I call building your career leap map with a list of ideas of where and what you could be doing, using what I call unique career criteria, something that defines who you are, if you’re not doing it thoroughly, you might miss different opportunities and possibilities.

Misha Rubin  08:14

But if you have this list, and something is calling you, then of course, you could examine what skills and experiences required, what what I usually could point out to people that that questions, I don’t have enough skills, and I might not have enough money. These are one of the things that keep people in that paradigm. So instead of exploring and examining, and that people feel stay stuck in their careers for years, or jump from one unfulfilling job to another, instead of actually doing a thorough, deep exploration.

Heather Clark  08:49

So once they do the thorough deep exploration, it sounds like you’re helping them get into a place where they’re the limiting beliefs are either not limiting them, or they can work around it until they can shift the belief so they can really look at, oh, hey, here’s a million things that I’ve never thought of here’s a career I’ve never even heard of.

Misha Rubin  09:08

So I would say let me let me tell you a little bit about my method, because I think it will put all these pieces in place. So the career leap method has three pillars.

Misha Rubin  09:17

The first pillar is I call it unique career criteria. So it’s about articulating all these unique things that define who you are, like, for instance, what brings you meaning and fulfillment? What What is your access to success? What is your motivation mechanism, because we’re all motivated a different way. What is your interpersonal profile, that’s how you interact with others.

Misha Rubin  09:41

 So once you know these things, then you can examine careers. You can examine different industries, you can examine different business problems. You can explore business ideas, you can explore, explore, nonprofit organization of some social change ideas, you can explore a lot of different things and then From there, you can choose your career leap one or two, or overtime, you might pursue some other things. So that’s unique career criteria is about knowing who you are and choosing the direction for yourself. Were you adding?

Heather Clark  10:13

Are you finding that when people are going through this process? How does that affect that? Because let me back up. My guess is that not a lot of people are like, Okay, I’m just going to quit my job. And now I’m going to work with you. It sounds like probably there’s more of a transition as they’re transitioning. Do you find that this has a short term increase in stress? Or do you find that this is overall a decrease in stress for people?

Misha Rubin  10:37

I’m thinking more about excitement for life. For some people, excitement could be a little stressful like that. One of the things that people tell me in my programs, I haven’t felt so alive in a long time, is that stressful to feel alive a little bit. On the other side, when you dad is not that stressful, right? So if we numb ourselves, and not feel anything, it might seem not stressful. So I would say I am less concerned about stress, I’m more concerned about feeling alive, being excited, generating new ideas, taking risks, or at least examining different risks.

Heather Clark  11:16

I love this, because what I’m hearing is one way of navigating the current landscape, in career in business, is really unlocking their own vibrancy. And one way of doing that is exploring the career path that really works for them. And I also appreciate you’re talking about how are people wired? And what are their values, and then setting those healthy boundaries so that you can get these things in place? Love? Yes,

Misha Rubin  11:43

I would say that the reason that people feel stressed or unhappy in their job, or the reasons they can’t don’t know, what is their dream career, or how to pursue it, you know, it’s all comes down to the same point, when you don’t know, it’s not even don’t know if you can’t articulate who you are. Because for humans, if we don’t put it into words, it’s really, we can’t really do much without information. For you. For humans, we need language to create reality for us, including reality around our experiences reality around how we negotiate our needs with others, or how do we pursue what really aligned with us?

Heather Clark  12:27

I love that, because I have said that so many times before, if you can’t put language around it, it’s very difficult to work with it. So tell us a little bit more about how you would move somebody through this process, you gave some high level about your system. Because one of the things that I’ve heard other people say is, I would do something different if I just knew what it was. Yeah, it sounds like, what your process does is it helps people uncover what that thing is.

Misha Rubin  12:58

If you talk to be even three years ago, I wouldn’t be that person. If you just told me what it is, I would just go do it. And so that space is very familiar to me. The thing is that while we are educated on zillion of topics through our lifetime, nobody teaches us about how do we find right career. So that’s why I think the topic of career education is so important, and we need to introduce it. Starting high school I just kicked off a program with with high school students, you know, because that’s the right time to be an inquiry, right.

Misha Rubin  13:31

And I wish somebody took my hand forget about high school, but maybe when I was graduating from college, and somebody said, we should just pause, just pause, just don’t rush, you know, you could do a lot of things. Who are you? What would you want to solve for? What do you want your life to be about? Just that didn’t happen, I just did all these things that were normal in the community of people that I lived with, you know, and I took this particular path.

Misha Rubin  13:59

So so I think career education is very important. And what I do is actually teach people because once you create a criteria, then you can actually evaluate ideas. You can evaluate careers, you can evaluate organization, you can evaluate a boss, you can actually really get to the source, which was my breakthrough, why I wasn’t fulfilled at my job. You know, when I, when I understood, for instance, my career values, I realized that my job just wasn’t aligned to my values to the extent that I wanted to write so a lot of things become clear while once you’re ticular you your unique career criteria.

Heather Clark  14:37

And this would be a complete solution to burnout as well, because so many times burnout, it’s not just the personal burnout. It’s the burnout that’s induced by the systems within with which we’re functioning. Especially if you’re very clear on your own values, then it’s easier to see does this match up with this organization that I want to join or the organization that I’m creating?

Misha Rubin  14:59

Yeah, I think the Organizations there is this phenomenon that people forget about their values or their needs, or what was important to them, you know. And I think they forget that an organization, any organization, any entity you can negotiate with, so that I think that’s where it all starts. Now, sometimes people try to negotiate, and they’re not successful. But that’s why I teach people.

Misha Rubin  15:25

So I told you a little bit about my first pillar, the unique career criteria where you discover your unique career criteria and direction. So my second pillar, I call it compelling communication. And this is a pillar about pursuit, right. So this is where you identify organizations that aligned with your leap, and with your values, this is where you communicate with them in a compelling way. And that interviewing becomes very important, because we think about interviewing as the place where they interviewing us to figure out whether we fit what they need.

Misha Rubin  16:05

And what I teach people is, this is the time for you to actually evaluate where they are, whether they fit your unique career criteria with the whole industry, or the whole organization, or your team or your boss. And I think because people really be not taught to do that check, then we end up in working in this organization that’s not aligned with who we are. And then we have all types of problems, and burnouts and all types of things.

Heather Clark  16:32

And that’s incredibly empowering. It’s actually the last few times that I have interviewed for jobs in the long past, it was really about I’m interviewing them. Because, you know, you need to know if it’s a fit or not. And when I share that with other people, you can see the light bulb go off, it’s like, yeah, you don’t have to take whatever they offer, you don’t have to just hope for the best. And, you know, they may think that they’ve got certain values, and why not just talk with them and ask them questions that reveal to their stated values, match their lived values.

Misha Rubin  17:08

This is very important, because everybody nowadays can put all types of values. And I think what’s important to see whether those values, what if they really values, you know, then with their within their organization, they would be, they would be used in performance management, they would be used in their business practice practices, they would use them as a criteria, but then organization, even for financial performance, you know, you you you, you will find out, that’s one of the ways to find out whether organization really, things, those those values are just saying that those are the values.

Heather Clark  17:50

Exactly. And a lot of times you can discern that in the upfront interview, or even, you know, just use your intuition, your intuition will tell you if something’s right or wrong, or on or off, rather. So I’m really enjoying this process where you’re empowering people to take their career where they want to take it, because in going back to what you’ve shared about education, about careers, a lot of us pick our career when we’re about 16, or 17. And I don’t know about you, my brain was not fully developed, I’m not really sure that 16 year old Heather knew what was going on here. And she went, I don’t know, I guess I’ll pick pharmacy like, okay, no,

Misha Rubin  18:27

right. didn’t really work. I’ll tell you more. I think we also living in these times when people will have to choose multiple careers over their lifetime, more and more, right? I think, in the past, people invested in through their college education with an idea that they will have, you know, this profession for the rest of their life. Right now, that’s kind of unreasonable assumption, because more likely than not, you will have to choose your career multiple times. And I think that’s why it’s even more important to understand how the choosing process works.

Heather Clark  19:11

Exactly. And my suspicion is, when people go through a process such as yours, they will be so crystal clear on what their deep, deeply held values are, who they are, how it operates in the world, that it would make it easier to simply pick a new career, even if it’s in a different industry, because those things would be the same even though the industry was different.

Misha Rubin  19:35

Exactly. Well, you know, your values might not be aligned with a particular industry or maybe with a part of the industry or with a particular problem. you’re solving your company within that industry. So and yeah, I think the industry alignment is a hugely important

Heather Clark  19:55

so the other thing I really like about this is this is helping people establish a release solid foundation where they can connect back to you know, this is who I am, this is how I’m wired, this is what’s important. And then as you’re moving through a quickly changing landscape, such as here we are during the pandemic, unprecedented times, as you were sharing, you’ve got that solid bone foundation to come back to it’s like, Okay, well, I, you know, this job has evaporated, or it’s no longer working or going back to the office doesn’t work for me. You’ve got the foundation to simply make a new choice.

Misha Rubin  20:32

Absolutely. And, you know, sorry, I’m interrupting. You don’t remember I was talking about the Korea lead map, which is the list of ideas of where and what you could be doing? What often happens, you might have something there. And today, it might seems not practical or not realistic, or something far off. Well, I want you to keep that notebook. And I always I’m committed to give you the tools for life, right? But I want you to look at that notebook in two years. And then two years, you may be like, Oh my god, I’m now ready for this for my next leap.

Heather Clark  21:03

So it’s not just fantasy land, it could simply be the future that you’re documenting through this process?

Misha Rubin  21:10

Well, I this is what I think what I think the Korea leap map is like a sacred process that I take people to. And the reason that I find it sacred because I say you have to uncover all the ideas, even the hidden ones, even the one that things unrealistic, impractical, will make you zero money.

Misha Rubin  21:28

Because in that thinking process, one idea could lead you to the next idea could lead you to the next idea. This idea that you have there might become relevant in two years. It just I there is a mystery to this process, right? And how our mind and psyche works. But once it’s on the paper there, we don’t know what will happen to it, you know, because then you’ll keep thinking about and you will find solutions.

Heather Clark  21:56

Beautiful. Misha, how did you come to be doing this work? What’s your origin story?

Misha Rubin  22:03

Oh, it’s like that. If somebody told me that I would be doing this, I would I don’t think I would believe them. But you know, so I spend. After college, I started my career by changing jobs every two years, hoping that the next job will do this for me. I took a year off to find my passion and I putting the quotations around the passion. Didn’t find it. And then I tried working with one company for 15 years. So I kind of ate usually say I tried it all or pretty much all of it. And then, but I always been an inquiry, how come? My job is not meaningful, fulfilling for me, like what would it take, and I was one of these people.

Misha Rubin  22:47

If somebody told me, Misha, go do this, I said, I would go and do this, I you know, and then I was sitting in the meeting, and it was before quarantine. So it was like a real conference room with a lot of people there. And whiteboards and color markers. And at that time, I was 15 years with with my company, five years a partner, I had more success than I could have ever imagined. And as an immigrant coming to the United States, I had responsibilities and acknowledgement.

Misha Rubin  23:15

And I was what I call a competent, unfulfilled professional. So this is somebody who is educated enough, good enough at what they do successful enough, but not fulfilled at their job. So I’m sitting at that meeting, and everybody’s talking and then I hear myself speak, you know, in my work voice, you know, rah, sell it saying something like, very serious, right? And as I was saying this, I heard my quiet voice. And my quiet voice told me this is not aligned with who you are anymore.

Misha Rubin  23:50

And that was like a moment of choice for me. Like I knew that on one side. I had to there was some comfort to that. But there was a price that I was paying for discomfort. It was so uncomfortable inside, you know, it was so soul wrenching, I had to numb myself so much either I continue that path, or I had to look into unknown. And it was terrifying. You know, because I’m a breadwinner, my family, I have three young children. I didn’t have a clear idea of what I would be doing. But that was my moment of choice that I knew I just couldn’t go back. Just couldn’t do it.

Misha Rubin  24:28

And you know, I started I had a few ideas. I started with one, and then it translated to another all in educational and personal development space. And then one morning, I woke up and suddenly I had the answer, why I wasn’t fulfilling my jobs. I had words for it. I had language, I could explain it to others. And that was the beginning of what I call right now the career lead method and that I told you about how I created a web page and got my first three students and

Misha Rubin  24:59

 Then one thing after another, and then my method has been evolving and developing, and I’ve been teaching more and more people. And then suddenly, yeah, I am talking. I’m a career educator, I know so much about the subject. I’ve talked to so many people, I understand the problems. And you know, for a long time, I couldn’t understand why I was doing, what I was doing, and why I had to try all these things. And then I knew that I had to experience all these spaces. So I can relate to people where they are in their own stuckness.

Heather Clark  25:35

That is gorgeous. I love it. And I especially love how your work voice didn’t drown out that inner quiet voice. That quiet voice that was like, you know, no, this isn’t going to do. And how did you? I don’t quite know how I want to ask this. But basically, it’s a question around golden handcuffs, because especially people who come from health care, like I did, but many other places. Like I’m not happy, I’m not fulfilled. But Gosh, I’m making good money. Yeah. And what is the thing that you find that is most often helpful to get people to break out of that orbit?

Misha Rubin  26:19

All right? Well, I would tell you a few things. One thing is, we now also have so much that we don’t really, we’re not really present to the impact that I think this is so important, we so and I remember, like I had to make the whole twist, you know, to accommodate, you know, that environment in which I were, and by the way, I worked for a great company, it actually has nothing to do with them, I want to be clear, that’s not a complaint about them. It’s more about me and my values and what I wanted to do, and I needed to adjust myself to fit something what I got myself numb to the impact, and that the impact you need to see is humongous.

Misha Rubin  27:02

First of all, it impacts your own well being because if you are not doing the sport that you love, there is the stress there’s a particular type of stress more than there’s a life is stressful, but there is a particular stress, when you do something that you don’t love for a long time. I find it soul wrenching. So it actually does on some very core level hurt you, you need to understand the I this is this is the thing that I find is huge for me as a parent, you know, would you want your children to have this type of situation, we don’t understand. Children don’t listen to what we tell them.

Misha Rubin  27:39

They inheriting the blueprint of our life. So if we live life in mediocrity, in this particular type of a, you know, environment where we are not fulfilled, they think that’s how life is. And that’s, that’s they inheriting that. And to me, that’s terrifying. You know, and then you know, your own health. And I just think all the things that you could be doing that you’re not doing there is this impact of what you’re not contributing, if you really evaluate impact. Most people should be terrified.

Heather Clark  28:16

Exactly, I completely agree, especially with the characterization of soul wrenching than that is exactly the experience and what you probably already know, but what I want to really share for the people who are listening, is when you get into those situations that are soul wrenching, where you’ve become numb to the impact. Yes, it is incredibly stressful, but that also changes how you perceive the situation.

Heather Clark  28:45

So it’s very easy to believe, like, this can’t change, nobody will hire me. I can’t get out of this. I can’t start my own pop up. Like those are normal thoughts that is your brain on burnout. Yeah, and it sounds like through your process, it helps people really get in touch with that inspiration, the inspirational self the thing that is actually true that no, you don’t have to do this. It’s okay. And you can shift out of it and it how do you help people bridge that gap to make the leap?

Misha Rubin  29:22

Great. So that’s the third pillar on call. I call it unstoppable mindset. I there’s a lot of I do a lot of things there. But dealing with disempowering beliefs is my top priority. My goal is that people leave my program with a mastery, first of all to identify them, then they know how these beliefs are structured and how to dismantle them and replace them with empowering context. So my favorite thing is when my students when they say something, and they like aged themselves, like Oh, that was a disempowering belief because as soon as you bring awareness to it, it’s already doesn’t give that power.

Misha Rubin  29:59

Yeah. Are you right? That’s what happens that’s our mind is designed to create these beliefs. This is where we make a mistake. This is the profound mistake of a belief. Belief occurs as the truth. Like So for instance, if somebody believes I am too old, for instance, to make a career change rate, well, maybe, you know, maybe, but maybe not look at somebody at your age who changes their job, you know, like, I just had a 72 year old Sergent, complete my program, falling in love with his profession, beyond even and reorganizing his business practice.

Misha Rubin  30:45

Well, here it is a person at 72 was exploring and examining and doing, you know, people change their careers at all the time. If you think that you’re too old, think about 10 years from now, what you 10 years from now will tell yourself today about you being too old. They will laugh at you. Thankful scold you. You know, the other funny thing about the belief is to all but this is example how you can dismantle those beliefs. You know, I have my student who finished my program, created this beautiful career leap to become like a coach for children, you know, beautiful right?

Misha Rubin  31:27

Before she registered into the program, she and I were talking, she’s like, well, I’m too old. She’s like, in her late 40s. And then she starts laughing. She’s like, Oh, my God, I just remember when I was in my 20s. And I graduated from college, and I wasn’t really thrilled about what I was doing. I thought exactly the same thing when I was 22. So you just then you start seeing if you really look is there is some truth, that 2247 72 could be too old, maybe, but it’s not the ultimate truth. You know, it just might have some truth to it, but not the full truth. So it’s important to see that.

Heather Clark  32:05

And I love the question of what if this is a disempowering belief? What if this isn’t true? Why, you know, maybe not why do I think that? But is it the whole truth? So it’s great questions that people can take and ask themselves like, well, I can’t do that. Because Is that true?

Misha Rubin  32:24

Exactly? Well, it’s a disempowering belief. If you feel disempowered from it, then it’s disempowering, right? If you don’t go like oh, my God, it’s amazing. This makes me feel amazing that it’s a disempowering belief, no question about that, right? But the question is, do you want to live with that belief? Or do you want to see that it’s just a believe it’s just the thing that pops them in your head. And there was always evidence for something else, if you want to look for it.

Heather Clark  32:53

And I really enjoyed that these, these are very portable tools, it really goes back to that strong foundation so that it’s easier to navigate changing the changing world as we go along. Because the world has always been changing. It’s just, yeah, it’s pretty dramatic right now. It’s really up for people right now. And and I’m guessing that the plan that you use really takes advantage of how people are wired, because not everybody is wired to do the big leap into the next thing, because you even talked about the intermediate step. How do you help people discern if that is a matter of wiring? No, no, it’s better for you to have an intermediate step? Or if that’s a matter of No, I think you’re just scared. How do you help people discern the difference?

Misha Rubin  33:40

Right, one thing I just want to be clear, I’m not a clairvoyant, so I don’t know, I don’t know what people should do, and I don’t tell them what to do, I just want to be very clear. What I give them is the tools, right, and then they choose for themselves. This and they could be scared, they could have practical reasons. They, they you know, like I don’t interfere in their decision making process.

Misha Rubin  34:03

If somebody thinks they want to go for a smaller leap now, I think it’s amazing, you know, if that’s what you’re comfortable with, I knew that it took me several leaps to get to even what I’m doing now. Everybody has their journey, my biggest thing that people need to move from their status quo, you know that they should start moving because when you start moving, then there will be other opportunities and there could be other ideas and could be are the things to pursue.

Heather Clark  34:30

I love that and as you’re sharing this, because of course, I like one of the things I do is help people eliminate stress. So I’m often looking at things through the lens of what’s the stress here. And what I’m really clear on is that there was a stress of stagnation for people as well if you’re staying because of disempowering beliefs or because you feel like you should or all that obligation, without taking at least baby steps forward that there is a great deal of stress involved with that. Which, of course, depletes resilience?

Misha Rubin  35:02

Do you know what it’s actually that’s what I think this stress of status quo and the impact. I think that’s what’s undervalued, people don’t understand how big it is because you grow into thinking that that’s normal. That’s why you don’t necessarily like, like, like, I’ll tell you that. Looking back, you know, when I was in my career was in my career, and I was doing things and you know, managing things, and you know, but now looking back, I was like, Oh, my god, that was horrifying. Like, really?

Misha Rubin  35:36

Because now that I’m not there, and I am not in it, you know, adjusting myself as like, Oh my god, what did I take myself through? That’s what I’m thinking. So that’s why I think this the stress of status school, and it’s like a chronic illness, you know, it’s, it will deplete you it will, because it’s also happening over a long period of time. Yeah.

Heather Clark  36:03

Yeah, and your amygdala, part of your stress response system sees the status quo as safe. Whether it actually is or not, it really requires, the new insight of the status quo is not necessarily safe. Sometimes it’s actually way more dangerous than stepping forward it dangerous from a stress and health perspective, dangerous from a career perspective. And certainly, from a vitality and joy perspective,

Misha Rubin  36:28

there is an illusion of safety of status quo, it truly creates this an illusion that is safe, but in reality, it’s not

Heather Clark  36:37

love it. So one of the things that you talked about, towards the top of the show was helping people identify their values, and then drawing clear boundaries, would you please share some more about that process? And then how people could begin that themselves?

Misha Rubin  36:52

Right? So I find that your career values is like your compass for meaning and fulfillment. And I think you just need to be an inquiry a little bit luck. So what am I about this, I can share my values to give you an example. So my values, my career values are making a difference, clarity, and manifesting.

Misha Rubin  37:16

So and so the work that I do is fully aligned with my values, I make a difference I’m making a difference on this podcast, hopefully, you know, making difference with my students, it’s I’m surrounded by people who also want to make a difference, you know, the values that they propagate, you know, the propagate that through the universe, you know, clarity, right.

Misha Rubin  37:36

So it’s not like I always have clarity, but I strive for it, I ultimately bring clarity to my students. So my students, when they discover their values, there are strains there, that it’s kind of brings them clarity. So that’s manifesting. So I manifested the career leap.

Misha Rubin  37:54

And then whatever my students manifesting in their lives and their jobs and their careers, that’s my ultimate manifestation. But I just gave you kind of, like a world of living inside of your core values, when there isn’t alignment, you’ll just see it propagating, propagating, propagating, you know, and I’m on a podcast with you, I’m, I’m sure you’re the person that wants to make a difference.

Misha Rubin  38:18

And you know, and so there is not a surprise that you and I talking, but that’s how values you attract that to people that share similar values, it’s all really interconnected in the world. And that’s where, while you know, you and I spoke a little bit before the program, about metaphysical stuff, while my progress program is very down to earth, like very down to earth, there is a metaphysical aspect come in,

Misha Rubin  38:43

because if you are aligned with your values, that suddenly you naturally attract those people in your life, that also are you you resonate with, with those people, they resonate with you, they want to hire you, you know, like, if you’re clear about that, then you will attract more of that. And some people will be repelled by your values, you know, if people only care to do X, Y and Zed or they you might be a wrong person for them, they will not hire you. And that’s a great thing.

Heather Clark  39:16

It is it may not feel like that in the moment. But that’s that’s Yeah, one of the things I realized is that one of my big values is clear discernment, and boy there’s a lot of places that just don’t appreciate that like okay, then we shouldn’t be together that’s easy.

Misha Rubin  39:31

Exactly. But that’s part of your awareness. So that’s you know, I think the confusion comes when you’re not clear about your values are and who you are. Then there is this noise you know, of performance based like interview that you want to perform well you want them to like you that you want. They want you to create a favorable opinion about you.

Misha Rubin  39:53

What I teach people in my communication strategies how to be authentic, which is true to who you are. relevant, which is you understand what they want and what they are about, and transparent. And if you arrive like that you authentic, relevant and transparent, then you don’t really need to worry about anything. And they will make a determination whether you’re right fit for them or not.

Misha Rubin  40:18

Because if they’re looking for somebody with 20 years experience and you have only two, they might not hire you, or they’re there or something, but then you really don’t need to perform and then you can really focus on interviewing them and figuring out who they are and whether they are the right organization for you.

Heather Clark  40:35

What Yeah, obviously because it’s so much less work to just show up as you instead of just show up as the identity of the me that I think the light Yes. It’s a lot fewer mental mental gymnastics right of it. So tell me what does it mean to you to be unshakable? Hmm.

Misha Rubin  40:56

I love this question. So to me unshakable, I think I use the word unstoppable. You know, there is a lot of, I’ve heard some other words that you know, that maybe not worth repeating here. But it’s in a similar context. So me unshakable is actually being true to who you are. So if when I define, so my mission is to fill the world with an empowered, impactful humans.

Misha Rubin  41:20

And an empowered, impactful human is somebody who knows who they are, who lives their life, and does the work within alignment with our values. Somebody who makes the types of difference, they know they could and should be making somebody who is empowered to make change. And somebody who sets an extraordinary example to their kids, and to their communities, on how to live purposeful life. To me that’s unshakable.

Heather Clark  41:48

I love that. Thank you. And it’s really interesting, because the tagline for my business is unshakable, unstoppable, and vibrant again, so I love that. Thank you. Okay. Awesome. Fantastic. Um, so one of the things you talked about is for people to set boundaries, and especially regarding their values, can you give us a tangible example of something someone can do?

Heather Clark  42:13

Because I tell you what, here in the biz, we talk a lot about boundaries are important. I talked about boundaries bring joy. And sometimes the concept is so foreign to people, they don’t quite know how to apply it. So I want to hear from you a way that someone could easily do that, or maybe not easily, but could at least do.

Misha Rubin  42:32

Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Thank you for this question. So. So think about that, in order to establish boundaries, you need to get into negotiation with somebody, it could be with your spouse, or your friend or your children, or your employer doesn’t really matter in English, right? And so one of the pieces that I teach people is negotiation. So they’re most people don’t even know how to negotiate or don’t negotiate effectively, because they’re not clear about what they want.

Misha Rubin  43:01

So if you want to set a boundary, you need to start understanding what it is you want. Like if we talk about career related boundaries, is that the hours when you work is this weather how much you work from home versus the office, weather people comfortable with the hours, but maybe sometimes they want to leave earlier and then finish their work at night, is that some people work on the weekends, and they don’t want to work on the weekends, or they don’t want to work on the weekends as a rule, you know, so there, you need to get clear.

Misha Rubin  43:33

And I usually say you need to get clear about a few things. What are your non negotiables? Like, what it is you’re just not willing to compromise? And what are your like preferences and considerations. So to me, all negotiation starts with getting clear on these things. So once you clear about them, then you can think about how to have these conversations. I usually say you don’t want to meet your boundaries, fully somebody else’s problem, you don’t want just drop and say, Look, this is what I want.

Misha Rubin  44:06

Listen, if you want to work in particular hours, you need to figure out how to make it happen. So the more you do this prep work and the more you will come up with solutions. You know, the the more empowered and the better your negotiation. So if you want to work particular hours, and still, you need to show the people like I’ll still accomplish what you want me to do, but this is what I need, you know.

Misha Rubin  44:27

So to me that I’m giving you some tips of how to start this conversation, being clear about what you want, also finding solution to your boundaries, and maybe some of them could be unsolvable. Maybe it’s really completely not workable for you and for family. Maybe there is a conversation to be had. Listen, I cannot do x i can only do so I think having these conversations are important and my experience and also managed a lot of people.

Misha Rubin  44:53

Most of the people when they come and talk you always try to accommodate them, you know, at least you will make an effort. Most people I’m frustrated because they never have a conversation. And as I mentioned before, that I’m not clairvoyant. And neither is your boss.

Heather Clark  45:09

Exactly being explicit is very important. And I really like the distinction between what’s non negotiable, because like, for me, I will be treated with respect, I will treat you with respect. And if that can’t happen here, we shouldn’t, we shouldn’t even try. But there’s other stuff like, you know, the work hours and the approach and all of that. It’s like, Well, you know, here’s what I’d like. So let’s negotiate from there. And if that really doesn’t work for them, then I get to make a choice. Well, am I willing to bend on this point or not? Right? Because there’s a whole spectrum of what’s crucial. And no, this is a, a safety, happiness joy thing for me versus, yeah, that’s a value add, right? Love it. Fantastic. Misha, tell me, where can we find you?

Misha Rubin  45:56

You can find me at Misha ruben.com. This is my website. On my website, you will find there is a free class that I give it’s about like less than 30 minutes. And it actually, I think it’s called define career mediocrity. Three Steps to fulfilling successful career where I kind of really go through my method and give a lot of good tools for people. I highly recommend that. And if you’re one of these people that you’re listening to this conversation is like, Oh my god, I know it’s time for me. I’m ready. Then you go to the Korea lead.com and register into my next program.

Heather Clark  46:40

Beautiful, thank you so much. That is an incredibly valuable and generous tool. Like, okay, listeners in 30 minutes that you can get some real tangible things to apply. That’s wonderful. Michelle, thank you so much for being on the show. Heather, it’s

Misha Rubin  46:57

been truly my pleasure. Thank you for your wonderful, insightful questions. Thank you.

Heather Clark  47:05

Thanks so much for listening. I’d love to hear from you. Go to unshakablebeing.com and submit your question, comment or topic request. May you be unshakable, unstoppable and vibrant again. Until next time.