Money Empowerment: Finding Your Land of Plenty with Carolynn Bottino

Today’s Guest

After working with more than 100 bookkeeping clients, Carolynn was inspired to empower to people to find joy in their relationship with money. Her approach is practical and holistic, with no judgement, helping clients find abundance and transform the way they think about and interact with money.

Carolynn is an author, speaker, and the founder of the Money Empowerment Project. She is passionate about helping women business owners and soulpreneurs become BFFs with their money.

Her international best-selling book The Land of Plenty: A Soulpreneur’s Guide to Finding Joy, Possibility and Abundance through Money Empowerment has been featured on the Spirited Woman’s top 12 book pick list for 2020.

Carolynn loves the sunshine and her happy place is anywhere near the water. You can often find her with her toes in her pool or in the sand. She believes she was a mermaid in her past life.

RESOURCES

The Land of Plenty: A soulpreneur’s guide to finding joy, possibility, and abundance through money empowerment.

episode transcription

Heather Clark 

Welcome to Unshakable Being: inspiration and practical tools for purpose led helpers, guides and leaders like you to shift out of stress, stop going in circles, and get what you want in your life body in business. I am Dr. Heather Clark, and I’ll be your host.

Heather Clark 

Hello, and thanks for joining us. Today we have Carolynn Bottino, who is the founder of the Money Empowerment Project. She empowers people to find joy in their relationship with money and become best friends forever with their money. She’s also the author of the international best selling book, The Land of Plenty, a Solopreneurs Guide to Finding Joy, Possibility and Abundance through Money Empowerment. Carolynn, welcome to the show.

Carolynn Bottino 

Thank you for having me, Heather.

Heather Clark 

Thanks for being here. So this is absolutely lovely. Tell us all about it. No, really, it’s It’s about because, you know, Unshakable Being the name of the show, this is all about helping people shift out of stress, stop going in circles and get what they want in their life body in business. And that’s why I invited you onto the show, because I feel like the work that you’re doing can help with many parts of this.

Carolynn Bottino 

Absolutely. And I think that that is so important to include money in that in that mission, because so many of us, I think, think about money. And it brings up things like stress and anxiety. And I don’t think very many people think about money on a soul level. So I think that it’s wonderful to include this in your show.

Heather Clark 

So tell us more about money on a soul level because I really feel like there’s a lot of us out there who maybe we’ve heard this, but our reality keeps reflecting back to us money as a physical thing. So tell us about money on a soul level.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah, so you know, it’s interesting because I So just to give you some context, I am a bookkeeper. And I kind of fell into bookkeeping a little bit backwards. It wasn’t like I, you know, went to school to become a bookkeeper or anything like that. But through my experience, I work with a lot of people and their money. And I see a very intimate relationship of how people interact with their money. And so the thing that’s really interesting is that on the surface, when you think about bookkeeping, you think, oh, that’s just something I have to do, because I’m required by law to do it because I have to file taxes. And it’s just like, most people just kind of think of it and go, blah, blah, I don’t want to deal with money. It’s kind of that bury your head in the sand thing. But from my vantage point, what I learned by watching a lot of people with money and then just paying attention to my own experience with money is that it goes very Very deep like to a soul level deep.

Carolynn Bottino 

And so much of our ability to feel abundance and feel joyful around money comes from that acknowledgement that being friends with your money and being in conversation with your money is really the key to financial success and abundant success. And I think if you see people who don’t have that, that soul level relationship with their money, that’s when you start to see people who fall into the trap of greed or fall into the I have money but it doesn’t bring me happiness. And you know, there’s so many cultural beliefs around money and greed and fear and anxiety and all of those emotions that Until you really start peeling it away and understand what your belief structure is and what your relationship with money is. Sometimes you realize, when you look into it deeper that you’re actually playing out other people’s beliefs and not your own. I know it just brought up a whole can of worms by everything I just said…

Heather Clark 

Which is awesome.

Carolynn Bottino 

But I think it’s all very important. And so when I think about money on a soul level, I really truly think about it coming to the heart of your relationship with money. And, and that’s really why I wrote my book was to explore how that relationship with money and our perception of our relationship with money impacts our ability to have success with money, and how do you define that success with money. So yeah.

Heather Clark 

I have a question about this. So does everybody have a relationship with money? Whether or not they realize it?

Carolynn Bottino 

Absolutely. 100%? Absolutely.

Heather Clark 

And then does everybody have a soul relationship with money? Whether or not they realize it?

Carolynn Bottino 

I would say yes. But I do feel like it might be a little bit more surface for some people. And it might be really deep for others, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that that soul relationship isn’t there. And the reason why I say that is that it’s more like, you know, when I grew up, I was kind of grew up around a bunch of different religions. My dad was Catholic. My mom was Mormon. My grandparents were more or less atheist and had lots of friends who are lots of different religions. I grew up kind of with this aversion to religion and to spirituality, because I didn’t realize that they were two very different things.

Carolynn Bottino 

And so the reason why I bring this up is that I think on the surface, like when I was younger, like even in into my 30s, I just kind of discounted that whole side of myself. And it wasn’t that I didn’t have spirituality within me, I just didn’t pay attention to it. And so I’d say the same is very true for some people with their relationship with money on that soul level, is that if you don’t pay attention to it, you’re not really going to develop that relationship. Whereas when you start shifting and paying attention to it, then it starts to develop.

Carolynn Bottino 

And what’s amazing is when you develop that relationship, all of a sudden you have more of an ability to manifest money when you want it and to play in this beautiful, wonderful energy of understanding how the universe works and how money really does want to support you. But it’s not to say that money doesn’t want to support you, if you’re not in that zone, you just might not see the signs.

Heather Clark 

I see. So if I’m understanding correctly, money wants to support you. Period.

Carolynn Bottino 

Correct.

Heather Clark 

And then based on the depth and quality of the relationship with money, that’s what affects your ability to see the signs and respond.

Carolynn Bottino 

Correct. So you know, it’s kind of like the law of attraction. So the more so what happens if you’re not paying attention is that, you know, say something comes up where, you know, I don’t know COVID this is a perfect example. COVID happens and you’re like, Oh my god, the world’s gonna end and I don’t have money to pay my bills. And I’m not saying that people don’t have money to pay their bills, because this is a very real reality for so many people right now. But I think that the way you respond to that reality has a huge impact on your ability to shift and to ask the right questions that help you change the direction of how you’re going to respond to that.

Carolynn Bottino 

So, for example, somebody who doesn’t really have much of a relationship with money, and is just relying on somebody else to provide them with a job might have a different reaction than somebody that is like, Okay, what can I do to make money and I, and I’m not saying one is right or wrong, but I do feel like people who are are like, Okay, I need to bring in X number of dollars to feed my family, what can I do have a very different reality than the people who were like, Oh, I lost my job and I can’t get money anywhere because they don’t see the possibility. And it I think that possibility exists for everyone. But you have to be able to be in the right mindset to be searching for those ways to bring in the money.

Heather Clark 

Well, let’s talk about that because under stress, and certainly under trauma, which is an extreme form of stress,

Carolynn Bottino 

Correct,

Heather Clark 

your brain works differently and you just don’t see possibilities. So someone in stress that here’s this whole, that would be nice if I was like, What can I do to make money and move out of it? But really, it’s, I’m just gonna crumple up here on the couch and just because yeah, be powerless over it. And that’s, that’s a very real thing. And I don’t want to invalidate that experience.

Carolynn Bottino 

Absolutely

Heather Clark 

But certainly it’s an experience from stress. So how can people shift out of that?

Carolynn Bottino 

So my best advice is to start with baby steps. And I talked a little bit about this in my book are actually a lot about this in my book, is that, you know, hearing I’m talking saying, Oh, yeah, it’s all gonna be good. And I don’t mean to, like you said, I don’t want to invalidate somebody’s experience, because I think we’ve all been there before where we maybe couldn’t pay a bill that we needed to pay or we didn’t know where the next paycheck was coming from. And, and it it is terrifying, and it is hard to get out of that space when you’re there. But if you are open to just thinking about possibility on a teeny tiny little scale.

Carolynn Bottino 

So one of the best questions I love to ask myself is what is the gift in all of this? And the second question I love to ask myself is, if anything was possible, what would I do? And not judge what comes up instead of saying, oh, that won’t work because or Oh, that could never happen for me. Just start brainstorming. Start just, you know, what would be possible if I believed that I wouldn’t fail. You know, and and it’s not to say that your money mindset is just going to automatically, you know, pull you out of this, the state because I don’t want to be Pollyanna about it, because that’s not how it really works. But I do feel like if you spend just a little bit of time every day in that energy of possibility, even if you don’t believe it’s truly possible, just the act of being in that space for a tiny bit of time and then slowly expanding how much time you’re in there is going to help you shift where you are.

Heather Clark 

Beautiful.

Heather Clark 

So, I love these questions too. What’s the gift? If anything was possible, what would I do here? Love this. And and I think it works better for people who have done some work to become unshakable.

Heather Clark 

But for those at the beginning of the journey, and I don’t know, maybe this never happened to you, but I know in my past, I was like, Yeah, that’s great. So anyway, what do we want to do here? So is your recommendation to just acknowledge Okay, maybe you don’t believe this. Maybe you don’t buy it. But maybe you set a timer and do it what for just a few minutes every day or how could somebody get started at the very, very beginning with this?

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah, so one of my very favorite ways to start out is to start with your money story. And the reason why I love to start there is because it sheds a lot of light on to your beliefs and it takes you out of your current belief system. And it gives you some insight as to how and why your current belief structure exists in the first place.

Carolynn Bottino 

And so one of the best things to do is just do a brain dump of everything you can think about about money so it can go back to your childhood, like your very first memory of money, it can go back to the first time that you had to pay a bill, it can go back to the first time you made your first dollar. It could be something that just happened last week that triggered you, your spouse said something or you know, it can be any memory you have. And really if you start pulling these memories and just making this list of everything you remember, spend maybe a week or two just creating this list and after you have I don’t know, 50 or 60 or more things on this list, go back through and start to recognize if there’s any patterns.

Carolynn Bottino 

 So when I first started doing this, I started back, you know, when I was a kid, and I was like, Oh, yeah, I remember when my parents did this. And I remember hearing my grandparents say this, and I remember seeing this happen in my family. And then I started going back through like the first job I had. And the second job I have and bosses that I didn’t like, and you know, just all sorts of things that had happened to me. And what became really, really apparent very quickly was that I had this money story that I have to work really hard in order to earn money. And it’s present in almost every single money memory I have. And once I recognize that, and I started looking at how I was approaching my business and my money relationship. Everything just kind of fell into place. And it’s like, Oh, I see, this is why I react this way. This is why I have this relationship that I do with my clients. Like, it just gives you a little bit of what’s the word, it just gives you some insight into how your relationship is structured, if that makes sense.

Heather Clark 

Oh, that makes perfect sense. And I what I love is that also gets to the root. As I’m hearing this, you know, Hello, I’m a coach, but that would be a root for many other things. Because for clients that I’ve had that had a root belief, if I work hard, then I make money. Often for people and I’m not suggesting this is you but often for people. That’s also a way to get approval. And approval–we often interpret as love. So if I work hard, which often comes hand in hand with struggle, then I am good and loved. And I, I love that because I could see was that at your experience when you got down to Oh, this is what’s going on. There was just an epiphany and you’re like, oh, it doesn’thave to be like this.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah, I mean, because you hear about these people that have passive income streams, and, you know, they, they, you see other people who appear to be lucky, or you know, all these things that it’s like, why can’t that be me? And then when you start looking at the patterns of what is going on in your life, and you realize, Oh, I’m starting to sabotage myself, because if something becomes too easy, I think I either A) don’t deserve it, or B) I need to work harder to earn it instead of smarter. And once I really started to see these patterns, I was able to make conscious shifts about how I interacted. And I think that it’s super important. I love your your insight of it being approval or love because so many times people use money or things to show their love. And so there’s a definite correlation between those, those two things.

Heather Clark 

So, once you see these patterns, it’s Is it easier to shift into because I know in your book, you call it the perception of plenty? Is that the thing that helps you more easily? Oh, no, I’m seeing this frmo my old mindset. Let me try on this new one, or is there a different step in there that helps you switch into this?

Carolynn Bottino 

I think it’s a lot of things.

Carolynn Bottino 

I do think that the money story is kind of like you said, it’s that root cause and so when you understand your money story, and it might be, it might be several things in your money story. So I mean, mine is that I had to work really hard. But then there’s all these other subplots in my money story. And, you know, money mindset work is one of those things that you, you think you have it figured out.

Carolynn Bottino 

And then there’s something else and then, you know, you think you have that thing figured out, and then that first thing comes back and it shows up again. So it’s not something that you all of a sudden are like, Oh, I have it, I have the answer. So therefore, it’s all worked out. It doesn’t work that way. Um,

Carolynn Bottino 

But it does give you that foundation. And it also gives you when you talk about that when I talk about perception of plenty and when you ask about perception of plenty, it comes from lots of different places, but I would say your money story is probably the number one. Number two is probably your perception of cultural beliefs around money. And I talk a little bit about this in my book as well. There are so many cultural beliefs that you take on as your own, without even realizing that you’re doing it. So one of the stories that I share in my book, I was in Italy last summer, and I was in the town of Assisi. And the patron saint is St. Francis. And he basically had to give up everything he had. He was a very wealthy person, but he gave up everything he had to live a life of poverty. And the story is the whole his whole Franciscan Order is built on living a life of poverty. And I don’t bring this up to say that that’s wrong or to offend Catholics or anybody religious.

Carolynn Bottino 

But it’s interesting because how many times do we have these stories in our society that say that poverty is better than something else, or that rich people are a certain way, like all of these cultural beliefs that we just inherently believe, because they’re just part of the fabric of our society. Those impact us as well. And so it’s interesting because when I start to work with people, and I say something and it triggers them, it’s like, hmm, if you feel triggered, Where is that coming from? Because part of this is questioning every single thing that comes up. Is this true? Is this my belief? Is this somebody else’s belief? Is this a cultural belief? Is this my family?

Carolynn Bottino 

Like where are all these things coming from? And I think that this is just you know, basics in therapy as well and then in coaching, but the more you question, and the more you understand where those emotions and beliefs are coming from, the more you can step back and choose, consciously choose, this belief is mine, and I choose to believe it because it serves me well. Whereas this one doesn’t serve me well.

Heather Clark 

Yeah, I love that. And then that comes from not a value judgment of this as a bad belief for this as a good one. It’s more like this one’s functional, based on my goals.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah, absolutely. Because I think with money sometimes we get so wrapped up into the victim mentality of money just happens to me. I know that’s least where I was. For a lot of my working career in the corporate world was that I, I was given a job or I, you know, got a job offer it was based on decisions I made. When I decided to go to college or didn’t decide to go to college or what I how hard I worked in high school and in college, it’s all these factors that lead up to you got this job offer. And then from there, it’s a matter of your boss liking you or not liking you or, you know, there’s all these factors that you just are playing into being able to accept what’s happening to you instead of actually choosing how you show up.

Carolynn Bottino 

And I know that people in the corporate world have choice. And I know lots of people in the corporate world definitely have positive interactions. That just wasn’t what happened for me. And so I personally see a big break in my life from working in the corporate world, and being a victim to transitioning into my business.

Carolynn Bottino 

But what’s interesting is that in my business, I still recreated those patterns until I recognized what those patterns were. And once I started recognizing those patterns, then I was able to say, oh, wow, I want something different. So therefore, I’m going to create and choose something different for myself.

Heather Clark 

Yeah, because those patterns there. It’s my opinion, that those patterns tend to be more useful and functional in the corporate environment, depending on the particular environment. Obviously, corporate isn’t one big lump, but I’ve had a lot of clients in corporate and as they began shifting their patterns like it seems Like it when they did it a little bit more slowly, it created a more feeling of safety for them in their job. But my goodness, once you start your own business, you discover, oh, these are not functional beliefs. Let me fast track this.

Carolynn Bottino 

Right. And and I also think it’s really important because there’s so much tied to money and value. And whether you’re in the corporate world or in your own business, that concept of value and worth being tied to your salary or how you price your services is really important. And the main factor that determines that are the choices you make around the beliefs you have. And it’s not to say that you can just say, you know what, I believe I’m worth $100,000 more than what I’m being paid right now. So therefore, it is. Like it’s not quite that easy. But there is something to be said about really acknowledging that belief system.

Heather Clark 

Yes, let’s talk about money and worth. Because at least in the coaching world, and here’s how to market your services and blah, blah, blah, you’re worth more than that. And then it becomes it’s almost like it’s a game for how big of $1 value can you attach to what you’re worth as a coach? And I’m like, what, why? Why are we tying money to work? Is that and I like for real? Want to know, is that a valid thing to link together or talk to me a little bit about money and worth?

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah, this is such the million dollar question.

Heather Clark 

Right. But no,

Carolynn Bottino 

yeah, I think that the thing about working So what shifted the most for me is when I decided that rather than asking, you know, what am I worth? It’s more of a question of how can I be of service?

Carolynn Bottino 

Because I feel like the energy is different between those two questions. And as I priced myself and really came up against that, you know, belief of I have to work hard in order to make money. And if I don’t work hard, you know, I didn’t deserve to have that money. Once I started to really question that. What I found was a very helpful question was: how can I be of service? And the reason for that is that I believe that when you are exchanging services money is truly just this tool to help us level the playing field, because it’s just a piece of paper. Really that’s like a an IOU. So when you level that playing field and say how can I be of service, and you think about what you want to pay for people’s services, and you want to have this equal exchange of energy, it’s very different than I’m going to go out and figure out how much I can charge somebody to make the most possible in order to get ahead. It’s very, very different.

Carolynn Bottino 

And so once I really started approaching this, of, I’m offering this service to people, and in exchange, it’s worth this value. It had to energetically be the right exchange of energy. And I know this sounds super Woo. But when I sat with that question, that’s been the best place for me. to really determine what that price is, but it’s not necessarily worth. And the thing that’s really interesting as I watch my clients interact with money is that that value and worth are not the same for everybody. So somebody might pay $10,000 for a coach and not even think twice about it and think that’s the most valuable money they’ve ever spent. Other people might see that price tag and think there is no way on God’s green earth that I would ever pay $10,000 for a coach, that’s ridiculous. But it’s not to say that that value isn’t there for the right person. And that’s that person who wouldn’t pay that $10,000 for coach might pay $10,000 for a vacation, that the other person that paid for the coach wouldn’t dream of paying.

Carolynn Bottino 

So really, it’s it’s a very very personal question of how to define worth. And so it’s really two things. It’s it’s what clients feel that that service is worth. But it’s also where you feel your service aligns with that dollar amount. Does that make sense?

Heather Clark 

I think so. So it’s almost like you’re not defining worth you’re defining value.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah.

Heather Clark 

Yeah, definitely. And the other thing that I’m hearing is it sounds like the value exchange for the service is also dependent on people’s personally held values. Like for instance, for the person that’s like, Oh, I will totally drop 10 k on a coach, but I I won’t drop it on vacation, they probably have more value in helping along you know, creating more possibilities, learning and shifting. And perhaps the person who’s like, no, not on the coach totally on the vacation would simply be like, well, I feel like I will be in more joy and happiness on vacation.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah, or experience or, you know, it could be that their their value system, you know, is is more geared towards that it’s kind of like the five languages of love for money. Like we we all have different values, and that’s what makes the world go round. So there’s not a right or wrong it but it it is that exchange of value and and I think it’s false to attach worth to value.

Heather Clark 

I agree with that. And then with pricing services, it you know, it can be very challenging, but I love the approach of what’s the value exchange and you know what can I do to be of service here? And how does that serve them? And but and it, and then you commented that it was Woo. But I’m here for the Woo.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah. And I really want to bring up a point that I talked about in my book as well, that I think is really important, especially for right now is that as we’re redefining what money really looks like in our society right now. I think it’s super important to get back to the original concept of what money really is. So money is this tool that helps us exchange services. And I love to think of these like micro communities. So I may have a hairdresser that I pay $100 to to do my hair. She then goes to a concert venue because she loves to go to concerts and spends $100 on tickets, then that concert venue spends $100 on advertising for a magazine. And that magazine then spends $100 on bookkeeping services with me.

Carolynn Bottino 

So as that money exchange hands, it creates income for you know, what was that four different people, that same hundred dollars just regenerates. And our universe is constantly expanding. And really money is truly infinite. Because every time it exchanges hands, it regenerates, it becomes income for somebody. And in return, you’re getting those services that you need. I needed my haircut. My friend wanted to go to a concert, the concert venue needed advertising in order to get people in the door and the magazine needed advertisers and they needed bookkeeping services.

Carolynn Bottino 

So as we exchange that money, it’s truly just bartering up level, if that makes sense. And so I bring this up because I feel like right now more than ever, if you start to really pay attention to how you’re spending your money, and those relationships you have with the people that you are hiring to do things for you. It all of a sudden gives this additional meaning to the money that you’re spending. And it I feel like I’m contributing to my clients and friends and all the people I interact with, I’m being very deliberate about where, where and how I spend my money.

Carolynn Bottino 

And I think that this is really important as we redefine how we want to live in this new world society, whatever it looks like to be a lot more deliberate. If there are, if there are services out there, and you don’t like the way that they treat their employees or you don’t like the way, you know, big banks are handling, you know, their money and how they’re spending it on, you know, big corporations or whatever, like you have a choice of how and where you spend your money. And those people like I know, I have a lot more joy if I have clients that are in alignment with how I believe. So I love to find those Win Win situations where I’m exchanging. I’ll give you bookkeeping services, you give me the service that I need. And I love that we’re supporting each other instead of just randomly, you know, going online and spending 100 bucks on something I might need, but I don’t see where that money goes. Does that make sense?

Heather Clark 

I think so. And then you’re using money as a tool. So I just want to check in because a lot of entrepreneurs, especially solopreneurs, find themselves in situations where someone is asking them for a trade. And I’m not like saying that’s right or wrong, but I’m very curious of what your approach is. Do you prefer to do the trade through money? Or no, no, I’m happy to exchange services without actually exchanging money.

Carolynn Bottino 

I love this question. Because if you would have asked me three months ago, I would have been like, Oh, no, I don’t trade. However, in the past couple of months, as this has come up, and I’ve really started recognizing these deliberate exchanges, I have actually set up a few of these for myself. And what’s really interesting about it is that we have exchanged money and I think that that is really important to exchange the money because there is an energetic expansion around that.

Carolynn Bottino 

But, I’ve I sat down with somebody I’ve coached with in the past, and she really wanted to work on her money mindset. And I really felt like I needed some coaching as I went through this next phase of life as we come into this new world that I’m talking about. And so we decided to exchange programs, and we decided on exchanging the same price, so it was $3,333. And so we’re, we’re paying each other that dollar amount, but exchanging services. And what I love about this is that it is it just generated $3,333 of income for me, it generated $3,333 of income for her, and we’re both getting the services that we both really need and if The if this if the past three months would not have happened, I don’t know if I would have been open to even approaching her about that exchange. And we both would have been out that money.

Carolynn Bottino 

And so I don’t love the idea of just trading services because I feel like a lot of times it comes from a place of poverty, like, I can’t afford that. So would you be willing to trade instead. But if you approach it energetically from a place of, I have a service that you want and need, and you have a service that I want and need, so let’s let’s support each other.

Heather Clark 

But you’re exchanging money as well. Like you just decided, essentially, you’re like, I want to buy your services. And she was all and I want to buy your services and then you exchange actual money though. Correct?

Carolynn Bottino 

Correct. Because I do feel like if without that exchange of actual cash, it easily can slip into the I can’t afford that. So let’s just I’ll do something for you. You do something for me.

Heather Clark 

Yeah. And I’ve had that experience for, yeah, sometimes the trades go great. Sometimes you’re like, Oh, this was magical. And then other times, like, because if I told you I’m going to deliver, I’m going to deliver. Like, I’m going to show up regardless, but the other party, like, doesn’t, right. And then in later conversations, you realize, Oh, they didn’t take it seriously because they didn’t pay money for it. And I think that maybe a speaking to, you know, the poverty mindset or whatever else is going on. But see, you’re not opposed to it. But if I’m hearing correctly, you still want to use money in the transaction.

Carolynn Bottino 

I do. I really do. And I think that it’s partially because it just helps. generate that, that income. Because when I think that there’s something very positive when I look at my, my books and how much I brought in each month, I love seeing that I made money. I mean, who doesn’t? Right? Right? And if you if you’re constantly exchanging your services without that exchange of money, then all of a sudden, instead of making, I don’t know, $5,000 that month, you might have only made $1,000. And that’s no fair. Yeah, even even though your bottom line is exactly the same, because you have the expense go out. There’s something different about feeling that that positive, like oh, wow, I made this much in my business this month. And the more you feel that positive energy, the more you’re going to attract that positive energy.

Heather Clark 

Well, and as you’re sharing this what strikes me is when you leave money in the equation. It’s almost like you’re respecting money. And when you cut it out, it’s kind of like if you know a small group of friends, but there’s one friend who just don’t bother to invite. Like, that’s very disrespectful. So I really love this perspective. And, and hopefully that’ll be helpful because I know a lot of business owners–or at least solo or micropreneurs–there’s a lot of people that want their services, but the other party doesn’t feel like they can pay. So there’s a lot of these trades. I mean, it’s happened for a long time. But at least in my world, I’m seeing a lot more people doing this. And I love this perspective of I’m happy to trade and let’s use money to trade.

Carolynn Bottino 

And what’s really interesting is that I work a lot with a woman who does energetic healing. And she’s been a client, a bookkeeping client of mine for Oh man, like four or five years a long time and I probably have seen her to do some energy healing for maybe a couple years. And when all of this came up, you know, she was one of those people that I’m like, hmmm… maybe I should do a trade with her. And I went back and looked at how much i’d paid her over the last year, and how much she had paid me. And interestingly, it was basically the same dollar amount. So I think that this is happening anyway. But it’s just acknowledging where that happens. And and what I love, why I love acknowledging this is that I love to support other business owners, and I love to have other business owners support me. And if I just said you know what, we’re even let’s just trade and take the money out of it. It feels so heavy to me feel so just like me. I just lost some of my income and and she lost some of hers. Instead of us both supporting each other.

Heather Clark 

You’re right as you share that the energy is completely different on that. And it’s not like it’s wrong. But as you’re inviting people to step into this perception of plenty, as you’re inviting people to step into this money as an infinite thing, it and you’re shifting the beliefs like why not come from this different place? Right? Because it’s not just working for you. You’ve got a lot of people in your life that this is working for, right?

Carolynn Bottino 

Yes, definitely.

Heather Clark 

So it’s not like this is my personal formula and like the steps of the how are probably different, but this broader structure is different foundation is very similar, I would imagine for people.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yes. And one thing I do have to say I have zero formulas.

Carolynn Bottino 

As much as I’m a bookkeeper, it’s funny because, you know, I think people have this perception of money being like very black and white, very like It’s it is what it is. And there’s a formula for everything. But really, it’s the only formula that I have is that you have to question your beliefs and explore your, your, your money mindset, otherwise, that’s about it.

Heather Clark 

Well, and, and, broadly speaking, technically that’s a formula. Yeah, it’s just the guru formula that we’ve all heard before. So it like your formula is, at least in my words, words, I call it interrogate your worldview, like, what are your beliefs? And let’s not judge them, just what are they? What are the beliefs? And then the next step feels like you’re inviting people to use that to build the relationship with money, and then that soul relationship with money.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yes.

Heather Clark 

So broadly speaking, that’s your formula. But that’s, it’s not the kind of formula that people hear and go, Oh, well, I’m just going to do that this afternoon. And I’m going to get that done.

Carolynn Bottino 

And especially not formula they would expect to hear out of bookkeepers mouth.

Heather Clark 

It’s so refreshing, though, but I honestly think for people in or at least, it’s my perception that bookkeepers generally have the same social perception that accountants do and you know, they’re all very, you know, flat and we do this and blah, blah, blah, and there’s a we this and then this and then this, but I just don’t think that’s as true anymore. Either that or my world has changed so much that spiritual bookkeeper, I don’t mean, there’s nothing wrong with that. There’s a lot of us in business that would much rather work with someone like that.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah, absolutely. And what’s interesting is that as I came out, for lack of a better word, as a spiritual bookkeeper, I’m, you know, I have I’ve had a lot of clients who I would not consider spiritual people and I was really worried. I’m like, Oh my gosh, what are my clients gonna think? Think of me as I, you know, write this book about spirituality and money. And I was pleasantly surprised how many people were so appreciative of the different viewpoints that I brought. And while you know I joke, yes, it’s Woo, I think that it’s such an important way to, to at least think that it could be different than what you’ve expected it to be.

Carolynn Bottino 

That I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the reaction I’ve gotten from even my non–my non woo-y bookkeeping clients.

Heather Clark 

But I and let’s talk about that for a second. Because just because it’s Woo, doesn’t mean it’s practical. It doesn’t mean it’s not practical, right? Woo things are simply a different approach. And I think people call them woo because it is not yet mainstream. Right? There’s a lot of stuff that used to be horribly woo. That’s now mainstream. So we just consider that normal. I just look at it for Well, I guess that’s a little bit of a value judgment, but I see it as in some ways it’s a little ahead of the curve. But if it works, why not use it,

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And and as I was writing my book, it’s so funny, because so many of the things that I thought were woo as I really got them nailed down and really defined in my book, I was like, Oh, yeah, that’s pretty much just like good, solid advice.

Heather Clark 

Solid advice and people who are, I don’t know more sensitive, more spiritual, whether they really realize it or not. I think it’s going to resonate a lot more. Because some of the money advice I’ve seen, at least the mainstream money advice has a little whiff of, at least in my perception, a whiff of dogma and a whiff of if you don’t do this, then that’s wrong. And you’re wrong. Yes, Boy, that’s not fun. Yeah.

Carolynn Bottino 

And that that is probably my biggest complaint about the financial world is that it is run from a place of fear. So you hear, you know, I had one person say that they went into go see their financial advisor, and they basically came out of it just feeling like they’ve been, you know, raped. It was just like, oh, because there’s so much shame about Oh, what do you mean, you don’t have a retirement account that has, you know, a million dollars in it. And what do you mean, you don’t have six months of living expenses saved up and what are you what are you doing? How can you? I mean, it’s like, if you’re not doing it by their formula, you’re Wrong. And I just don’t believe that I don’t believe and all.

Heather Clark 

And furthermore, I wonder if that setup isn’t so that well, you’re wrong and I have an answer for you buy my tool. And it’s like I detest the fear mongering.

Carolynn Bottino 

Right? Right.

Heather Clark 

And yeah, or buy this or buy in, it’s all very, like there’s no need to buy from scarcity. If it’s a fit, then it’s a fit, and we don’t need to all feel bad about it. Yes. Like, like, Oh, it’s shocking that here in America, late stage capitalism that not everybody has six months of savings like wow, shocked. Shocked!

Heather Clark 

You’re in a system that doesn’t support that.

Carolynn Bottino 

Right. And it’s so interesting right now to take a seat and watch as all of this is playing out. And again, I don’t want to diminish the experience that lots of people are having out there. But it’s it’s just shining light on where our society and the values that our society says they have, and what they actually have, especially when you compare it to other countries. You know, like it’s it’s no surprise that our complete healthcare system is just failing. And all these other pieces of what’s happening before our eyes are related to the systems and structures that have been very broken for a long time. And this is just really shining light on what’s going on. And I hope we emerge from a world this world–or into this world I guess I should say, in a in a much more conscious and accepting and Loving place, then what this capitalism was built on?

Heather Clark 

Yes. And hopefully with systems and structures that support us and are very functional. Yeah, I completely agree. I think that this pandemic is really exposing all of the issues that were already there. It’s doing it in such a way that we, they can’t be ignored.

Carolynn Bottino 

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Heather Clark 

And and yeah, so I’m very hopeful that we’re able to like, No, no, we’re unwilling to settle now. Let’s get something that works for everybody. Yeah. And then hopefully, we’ll all be able to truly receive that.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah, that’s the other side of it. Right?

Heather Clark 

Yeah. Cuz I know that you talk about that a lot. It’s also about receiving, and I think that there’s more opportunity for receiving that we just don’t see.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yes. And I feel like receiving is one of those things. Things that you know, going back to my story and that you have to work hard to earn money and be worth it, you know, I still struggle with receiving. And actually, this morning as I was out on my walk, I was having a little conversation with myself about this, like,

Carolynn Bottino 

I kept saying, it’s okay to have money, it’s okay to have money because, you know, I just got, you know, my stimulus check, and I just got my PPP loan, and I got all these things and all of a sudden, I’m like, Oh, my gosh, there’s money in my bank account. And it’s not that I don’t have money in my bank account, you know, most of the time, but there’s more than usual in my bank right now.

Carolynn Bottino 

And it’s so interesting how many times you are approached with an opportunity, and can you receive that opportunity without judgment? And the reason why I say that is like, oh, is there a hang up here about, I’m not the type of person who accepts handouts, government handouts, I don’t need to be on, on unemployment or whatever your situation is right now. Because I feel like the rules of the game have completely changed in the past couple of months. But it challenges our beliefs and our ability to receive based on our money story and our our cultural beliefs.

Heather Clark 

Yeah, because — I’m going to ask I’m sure, it’ll be a very simple question. What? What does it mean to truly receive?

Carolynn Bottino 

I think to me receiving is being able being open to accept what comes to you.

Carolynn Bottino 

And the easiest way to describe this is how if somebody says, Wow, you look pretty today. Can you say thank you believe that what they said is true. Or is it like,

Carolynn Bottino 

Oh, this old thing I just, you know, pick this up. But you know, I don’t know, at the secondhand store and it’s old or whatever you’re you. There’s always these experiences.

Heather Clark 

If you’re Midwestern. Oh, thanks. I got it on sale, you know?

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah, exactly. Like, there’s always a response. It’s not just Oh, thank you for that kind compliment. And I internalize that and accept it. That’s really what receiving is, and it’s, it’s a talent, because, again, culturally, we’re trained, especially as women to deflect those compliments and potentially deflect anything money, whatever it is that wants to come our way.

Heather Clark 

And it seems to me like that would require a fair amount of courage.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah,

Heather Clark 

because the other thing you’re doing is you’re, you’re breaking the social rules, because other people typically not in all circles, but typically the expectation is at least a slight deflection of a compliment. But if you’re just willing to say, Thank you, and take that in, then I’ve had this experience where then you get to wait through where the other person has a little bit of an issue with

Carolynn Bottino 

something else. Yeah.

Heather Clark 

So changing that dance does require a little bit of courage, but yes,

Carolynn Bottino 

come on. Oh, no, I was just gonna say so going back to the money idea. It’s kind of the same thing. So if somebody comes to you and says, here’s this money, like, let’s use the government as an example, here’s your stimulus check. How many of us think Oh, thank you, government for giving that to me? Or is it Oh my god, they’re gonna screw me in some way or another when we do taxes, do I have to pay taxes on this? Or, you know, there’s all this other like, stuff that comes up. And yeah, I’ll just leave that right there.

Heather Clark 

Yeah, there’s, it’s it’s really driven a lot of people stuff up that’s for sure. Yeah, not everybody’s. But yeah and I just and not to make people wrong but wow, what a gift to be able to see Oh, here’s another aspect of my money story

Carolynn Bottino 

because the thing is is that your reaction to that tells you more about you and your personal belief system and your story than it does about anybody else.

Carolynn Bottino 

And so, you know as as much as as much politicising as there is around You know, the stimulus and everything that’s going on with, with how our country is responding to this crisis and the financial support that they’re giving or not giving. So pay attention to the way that you’re responding to it and your your judgments about it, because those judgments will tell you a lot about your own story.

Heather Clark 

And also will tell you a lot about your cultural story. Yeah, around money as well. Because if you were in a different country, I think there’s a lot of other countries in the world like, oh, only 1200 bucks. My God. Yeah, very different.

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah. And and I know that there are some countries that are paying a couple thousand dollars a month, which has actually been proposed in the United States, whether or not that really will happen, who knows? But it’s so interesting to see how different countries respond and how different people respond. And as all of this is rolling out.

Heather Clark 

And what a gorgeous opportunity to really look at that money story and develop that relationship with money. Yeah, love it. Yeah, love it.

Heather Clark 

So I’m super curious, Carolyn, what does it mean to you to be unshakable?

Carolynn Bottino 

I love that question. I think that unshakable is really a concept of knowing who you are and feeling completely confident in your own skin.

Heather Clark 

I love that. I really love that.

Heather Clark 

And I really like to hear about, it’s like your origin story. I want to know how you got to here to be unshakable with money and doing all of these wonderful things. I know that you were a bookkeeper, but I just, I want to hear the origin story.

Heather Clark 

Sure. So I actually talk about this story a lot in my book. So if you want to read all the juicy details Definitely go there. But I, my parents were both entrepreneurs. And I watched them work really hard as I was growing up, and so I internalized that. And as I moved into my first real job outside of college, I worked really hard. And I got passed over for a promotion, and didn’t understand why. And I ended up moving into the nonprofit world because I really wanted to make a difference. And there was a belief that you had to work really hard for not very much money in the in the nonprofit world.

Heather Clark 

And after getting burned out there, I went back to the corporate world and again, worked really hard and got basically my salary cut because I was working hourly and got moved to salary not paid for the time, not paid bonuses. So I went through this whole history of like constantly just never getting ahead and constantly being taken advantage of, because I was working really hard. And then the last real job I had before I went into running my own business. I worked really hard. No surprise there, right. And I ended up getting fired from the job because I stood up for myself. I had a boss who wanted me to double my workload. And when it came down to it, he wanted to give me a 4% raise. And when I said no, he fired me.

Heather Clark 

And it was, it was an amazing blow. But it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Because instantly It was like, oh, what should I do? Instead of Oh, I need to find a new job. And so going through that process of self discovery as I started to question all of those things that I just took for granted, or just took as face value. That’s really where the shift happened was was, all of a sudden just asking, whoo, what could be different here, and all of a sudden, it just gave me all this space. And it became very, very clear that I call it breaking out of the matrix, because all of a sudden, I didn’t have to be confined into this little box that I thought existed.

Carolynn Bottino 

So yeah, I think that that it’s a journey, for sure. It’s not like just one day I was like, oh, I’m unshakable because I it took being shaken up. A lot

Heather Clark 

So yeah, I would say that that was that was really the the main turning point for me is when I kept pushing and pushing and pushing and nothing ever changed, I just kind of recreated I mean, you talk about this a lot in, in relationships, you know you, somebody gets divorced and ends up marrying the same person and playing out the same same role until you learn that lesson of who you are for yourself. And that’s really what it took for me was really learning what it was that I really wanted to do and who I wanted to be. And one of the main things for me was that I knew that I had to find joy in what I did. And while I loved my job, I didn’t necessarily love my environment. And I realized that I could now create that for myself. And that’s what I did.

Heather Clark 

I love it. There’s a lot of people that on the road to becoming unshakable, there’s like a major shake up. And it doesn’t have to happen. But it’s so common and the way I look at it, it allows a person to dramatically simplify, you know, when that illusion of stability and control is removed, your golden core comes out, and you really like, oh, now, this is what’s important to me. This is what I’m doing. And like, I love the shift. Yeah, that you brought into your life. I just love it. And it sounds like you’re in love with what you do now. Which is wonderful too.

Heather Clark 

Absolutely. And if you’re not in love with what you do, like Steve Jobs says in his Stanford graduation speech, keep looking, because there’s no reason to live your life if you’re not in love with what you do.

Heather Clark 

Yeah No matter who you are You don’t need to be a Steve Jobs absolutely don’t need to be a whoever, like for real. How would your life change if you loved what you did?

Carolynn Bottino 

Yeah, so important.

Heather Clark 

Yeah beautiful

Heather Clark 

So thank you so much. This has been delightful.

Carolynn Bottino 

Thank you for having me. I love talking about money.

Heather Clark 

Where can people find you?

Carolynn Bottino 

So probably the best way to find me is on my website. It’s moneyempowermentproject.com. And on that website, I have a couple of useful tools. I do have a quiz about your money Mojo, which is one piece of how you can really explore how you react to money and your money relationship. So highly recommend that if you’re looking at a first baby step.

Carolynn Bottino 

And then the second piece that I have is that I have The one of the chapters to my book you can download on my website as well. And the chapter that I have chosen, I actually put it up long before all of this came out, but it’s no no accident. It’s the chapter that really serves as the manifesto of really what it’s like to live in the land of plenty. And so has a lot of things like money is infinite, and those micro communities. And so it gives a lot of little tidbits of belief systems that will help you really think through where you are in your relationship with money and how you can potentially shift if you are in a position where you’d like to make some of those changes.

Heather Clark 

Beautiful. Thank you very much. And thank you so much for being here.

Carolynn Bottino 

Thank you again for having me.