Giving Up the Fight with Your Own Body with Sophia Wise One

What if you gave up the fight and started to feel affection for your body…what would change? Join Sophia Wise One (singer, speaker, transformational storyteller, medicine caller, and podcaster) and I as we explore how to stop using your body as a battle ground.

We cover adrenal fatigue, allostatic load, adrenal fatigue and ADD/ADHD, PMS, PMDD, TMJ, immune system crashes. Patriarchy. Holy Patience and Holy Impatience. Functioning within larger dysfunctional systems. The role of capitalism in fighting against your body. Suicidal thoughts and burnout. And much more.

Explicit; NSFW

Today’s Guest

Sophia Wise One

Singer, Speaker, Transformational Storyteller, Medicine Caller, Podcaster

Speaker, singer, mentor, transformational storyteller, visionary, and prayer of prayers. She is the host of many beloved global podcasts: “Vagina Talks”, “Medicine Caller”, and “Temple Erotica: Stories of Sacred Sexuality”. Sophia makes temples everywhere she goes where people claim their sacredness, define it for themselves, and remember who they truly are. She trains professional medicine callers to trust and optimize their medicine through self-mastery, soul unification, skill refinement, and ancestral reclamation. Sophia runs a vital and rich patreon community she calls The Temple and is the creator and author of I LOVE MY LIFE: Oracle Deck and Academy. A child mystic who has been a professional Medicine Caller for over twenty years, she is trained in over twenty different modalities. Known for her candor and love, digging deep, laughing the whole way.


I Love My Life Academy

episode transcription

Heather Clark  00:02

Welcome to Unshakable Being: inspiration and practical tools for purpose led helpers, guides and leaders like you to shift out of stress, stop going in circles, and get what you want in your life, body and business. I am Dr. Heather Clark, and I’ll be your host.


Heather Clark  00:19

Hello, and thanks so much for joining us. On the show today we have Sophia Wise One. She is a speaker, a singer, a mentor, a transformational storyteller, visionary, and prayer of prayers. She’s the host of many beloved global podcasts, including Vagina Talks, Medicine Caller, and Temple Erotica: Stories of Sacred Sexuality. Sofia is the kind of person that makes temples everywhere she goes where people claim their sacredness, define it for themselves, and remember who they truly are. Sophia, thank you so much for coming onto the show.


Sophia Wise One  00:58

Heather, I am so pleased, delighted to be with you and to be here and to be with your but to be with you like those of us that are those of you wherever you are sitting, sitting with us, in your ears really happy to be here.


Heather Clark  01:11

It’s such a joy, such a joy. And when we first connected, we connected over several things. But what we discovered is we had kind of similar stories and we taken some similar paths around adrenal fatigue, stress, allostatic load and all that kind of good stuff.


Heather Clark  01:29

And just for the listeners, I want to let you know that this Oh, my goodness, this is going to be fabulous. Because like to start today is to continue the conversation that Sophia and I were having offline about how to shift out of not only just adrenal fatigue, and allostatic load, but more importantly, how to give up the fight with your own body. So I Sophia, I would love to hear you share what you’ve noticed around this and kind of what path you have taken.


Sophia Wise One  02:06

Yeah, oh my goodness, bodies, like I just, you know, the place what I actually want to start is like here, and then we’ll we’ll go back. We’ll go back in time about how I got here.


Sophia Wise One  02:16

But I just am having this moment, as I sit here I’m I I’m in such affection with my body right now. I’m in the middle of my moon time I’m menstruating, and I feel soft, my body feels easy, I feel rested, I feel energized. And that is such a glorious thing to me that is not like that’s a that’s a win. That’s a victory to name all of those things. And I got to this place of enjoying having a moment of like feeling into my body and then just like, feeling it feel good. And then being like, Oh my gosh, like wow, I’m so glad it feels good.


Sophia Wise One  02:59

Like to really celebrate that comes from a place of, you know, kind of all through my life, I had these different tension body symptoms, and so many of us do. And, and, you know, gosh, it’s like where do I start I think about I had chronic headaches when I was a teenager I had TMJ just like a joint jaw tension headaches, and, and then I had extreme PMS and very and, and, and painful menstrual cycles, and incredibly volatile emotional cycles.


Sophia Wise One  03:34

And I was diagnosed with pmdd, premenstrual dysphoric disorder. And that was the first place that I learned how to change the way I was addressing my recurring body troubles in a, like deep, giving up the fight kind of way. Like that was where I found out that I’ll put it this way. That’s where I found out I was fighting my body. Because I had enough of an upbringing that was like very body positive and kind of holistic in my in my upbringing so that when I did hit all these symptoms, my first inclination was to actually trust my body and go to my body, and really start to pay attention.


Sophia Wise One  04:17

And what I found out when I started to pay attention was that I had, I had been paying attention in the way that like, I think about kids who get in trouble a lot. get attention, you know, like that’s what my body was like my body was acting out. It was constantly acting out and instead of giving the care that I needed to my body, I was fighting it I was like, stop doing it was like this, this battle ground, you know, and that battleground led to so much aches and pains in my body and especially in my menstrual cycle.


Sophia Wise One  04:51

Well, I went on this long, epic seven year journey where I just kind of just did everything I could get my hands on to to shift that battle ground in my body. And I shifted a lot of it. I mean, a huge amount of it, I took myself, I was I said, I’ve been diagnosed with premenstrual dysphoric disorder, which is like, it looks a little bit like, like manic depressive or bipolar. And it looks like the worst days of PMS, you can imagine. But it’s like a week and a half, and it wrecks everything. And, you know, I, I, by listening, I no longer even qualify for pmdd anymore. It’s not something that they think it’s not really something that like, people think about something you can like cure or get rid of. But there was a time where it was extreme for me, and then I don’t, it doesn’t, that’s not what my life is like anymore.


Sophia Wise One  05:43

But then, in 2016 I, that’s when I actually experienced adrenal fatigue. And my immune system crashed. And I had I had been saying for a couple months, I was married at the time, and I was saying to my partner, you know, if something doesn’t feel right, I feel like my immune system is working all the time. Like, something doesn’t feel right. Something doesn’t feel right. And so I it was like, I had enough of this listening to my body that I had developed through those other kind of health crisis, things that I I had this attunement, something didn’t feel right, something before it, but it couldn’t quite really get to it.


Sophia Wise One  06:21

And then it was in the middle of the summer. And I was teaching, I was running a program at Omega, and I got poison ivy, and then the poison ivy got infected. And then I got a flu. And then I came home. And then I had a cold sore outbreak. And then I had reoccurring outbreaks that were happening on top of each other. So it was about a three week period in which my immune system completely and utterly collapsed. And I was


Sophia Wise One  06:49

I mean, it was it took — I was just talking about this yesterday, it took 17 days of pretty strong antibiotics to clear out the poison ivy infection, and steroids. I mean, my body was just it was trashed. And I don’t know if you wanted me to go all this while I’m like, I’m just like going Heather just like, Oh, I want it all. Okay. So so I was, I mean, I was I was devastated. I had tickets for Burning Man, I had to give them back, you know, to find someone to sell them to it was like I, I was in bed, it was like, I was in so much pain.


Sophia Wise One  07:22

And I kind of recovered a came through that. And I thought, oh, gosh, like, I knew something was wrong. But this is like, this is serious. This is serious.


Sophia Wise One  07:34

And so I kind of recovered from that we had been out on the east coast and my partner and I went back to where we were living in New Mexico and I got back and I said we need a couch. Which is kind of funny, because we have a little this adorable little studio apartment and we used we had our bed and this little table. And then we had this kind of like movement studio art studio space. And so we had a lot of open space in our like little studio.


Sophia Wise One  07:57

And I came back and I said I need a I need a couch, like I need to have my feet up. And, and so we like found a couch, got a couch. And, and and I really went to work at figuring out like, what happened, like what happened, like I got sick on whatever that was, you know, August ninth, and it’s September 10. And I’m not feeling great. I’m not feeling good. I would have a dog at the time. And and I would walk the dog and it was like I couldn’t even walk. I couldn’t even walk, you know, I’d walk 60 feet and I’d start to get winded.


Sophia Wise One  08:35

And I was like this is not and I was what I was 32 at the time. You know, it was like What is happening? The other piece of this puzzle is that I had that year, my partner had called me and she read an article in mindfulness magazine. And it was about ADHD, ADD and ADHD. She said, where I was traveling for work, and she said, I read this article, and I was Have you ever thought Do you think she was being so gentle about it? Do you think maybe have you ever thought maybe like that maybe you might struggle with like a ADD or ADHD? And I was like, not bad? No, maybe. So I read this article. And it made me think of you I said, Well, did they have like a list of symptoms or something like a list of like, if you have these things like you should look into it. And she was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.


Sophia Wise One  09:23

So she read them to me. And as she read down the list, I started to laugh. And at the end of the list, I was just like a full go file. And she was like, what do you what do you think? And I was like, I thought I was just having a hard day every day.


Sophia Wise One  09:40

That’s what I thought. I thought I was gonna grow out of it. Like I was totally like, what like, Oh my gosh, this like epiphany. And so what happened when I started to research more because I had learned this from my, from all of my work that as a body worker and as an employee facilitator and communications coach, all those things that I have a way of attracting, we have a way of attracting people, right?


Sophia Wise One  10:06

So I’ve worked with a lot of ADD and ADHD people in my life. And, you know, I described that as kinesthetic, nonlinear creative problem solvers. That’s, that’s what ADHD is, it’s like, I’m, I’m, yeah, I’m not, I’m not that I’m this and this functions really differently. So. So I was like, I was okay with I was like, I know, it’s not a disorder. I know, that’s like the fucking patriarchy that can’t handle itself that only knows how to like, if you’re not fitting in this little tiny white supremacist model body model of like thinking and functioning, then like, you’re wrong and failing.


Sophia Wise One  10:40

So I had enough context to be like, Okay, I’m not a disorder, I’m not broken. But there is a way of being that is not –that I’m not optimizing. And when I try to function, I’m not functioning great. So I started to look into alternative approach holistic treatments, you know, ideas and understandings of what ADHD is. And I started to read these articles.


Sophia Wise One  11:02

And I kept finding this is like, this is so key to everything that we’re talking about, like everything I’m talking about here, because I read this articles, and they kept describing undiagnosed women with ADHD, getting fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, allostatic load, adrenal fatigue, adrenal failure, immune system collapse in their 40s, when they had children, and failing marriages.


Sophia Wise One  11:40

And as I read this, and I don’t think anybody wrote that article altogether, like I put it together, right? Like, I was reading these pieces, and I put it together, and I said, you just described my mother’s illness. It’s exactly what that my mother had chronic fatigue. she, her, her system collapsed when I was two and a half, three years old. And she went to bed and has been journeying through a process of healing her own self for 33 years.


Sophia Wise One  12:08

So I read this and thought, Oh, my God, like, Oh, my God, and I was having these conversations with my mother. And I was reading these articles. And it was like, yeah, it’s so stressful. Like, you find a way to cope as a single woman in this world. And it’s like, you’re creative, and you make it happen.


Sophia Wise One  12:26

And then you add kids, and you have to organize their life. And then you add a partner who like God, blessed, socialized males, who are told they have to, like, their lack of skills is brutal and terrifying. So then they get in a marriage, and then they’re like, I don’t know how to do anything except very few things.


Sophia Wise One  12:44

And so then these wives are sitting here going, like, okay, I’ll take care of the family, I’ll take the emotional needs of my husband, I’ll take responsibility of the household, I’ll also bring home the bread because I’m an empowered, you know, feminist and out, I’ll care about these things.


Sophia Wise One  12:58

And this is just too much, especially on a system that’s not designed to kind of do this, like rhythmic organization, the way that that that all of those systems need especially not alone. And so when my system collapsed, it took about maybe three months, it was the fall, for me to kind of let all of this information really start to come in. And I was able, I was able, in a meditation to look through this time tunnel. And I said, I won’t make it as far as my mom made it, I won’t make it to 44 before I can’t walk, and I’m so sick, like I’m 32 now, and if I can’t get to the core of what is stressing my system, without kids, and a pretty great marriage. And,


Sophia Wise One  13:48

you know, at like, I need to get at the core of what this is like, I’m pretty connected to my body. But there is something that is dragging me down. So I don’t know, for people who like allostatic load or general fatigue, all of these things.


Sophia Wise One  14:03

Allostatic load specifically is referring to the physiological condition that happens when your body is in a constant stress response. And I described it recently as like putting the wrong kind of fuel into an engine that like breaks down the engine. And so it’s like you’re burning a fuel and you can get some burn off of it. But it breaks the system as you run it.


Sophia Wise One  14:25

We’re not designed to be running off of adrenaline, and stress hormones all the time. They’re hard on the body. And so when we’d run off of them on a daily basis, it stresses every aspect, our digestion, our brain, our heart, our lungs, our muscles, our bones, everything, want a different kind of thing. And that’s when I really started this journey of I got to go deeper. I can’t just not be so not and be in pain. Like I was like I had been on such a journey, my PMS and my menstruation and my emotional turmoil motivated me to get out of pain. But this was like, that’s not an just being not in pain all the time isn’t enough. I need a generative life, or else it’s gonna destroy me.


Heather Clark  15:14

Exactly. Like, just because a lot of times when clients come to me at first, especially for adrenal fatigue and burnout, their whole life goal basically boils down to, I want things to be less bad.


Sophia Wise One  15:33

I feel it, raise your hand, raise your hand, if you’ve ever been in that position. I want just like I get less bad, please. Yeah, it’s a real.


Heather Clark  15:41

And then the second part of that is not only less bad, but less bad, so that I can continue to try to function.


Sophia Wise One  15:48

That’s right.


Heather Clark  15:49

In all of these dysfunctional systems that I find myself in


Sophia Wise One  15:52

Oh, bless us. Bless. Oh, yeah. Oh, I so Yeah, totally. Exactly. That’s exactly. Exactly. And looking at looks down that time tunnel lens, that is never gonna work. And I also was like, I have to look down, I didn’t have to look down my future time tunnel, I just look at my mother who did the same. I mean, she just was like, every treatment was like, how can I get back to this life? That is completely unreasonable? and have it be reasonable, right?


Heather Clark  16:18

Mm hmm. Yeah, instead of what if that doesn’t work? So now, how about when people just first start out, I just do a gentle reminder of Yes, I understand. less bad is the immediate goal. Got it. And as we go along, and you feel better, you’ll see that more as possible. And we’ll be able to really get all that to happen as well. And it’s like, and not everybody, it’s not required for everybody to blow up their whole life.


Heather Clark  16:46

So I don’t want people listening to this go, Oh, well, you know, I guess I got to move away from my kids and get a new partner and get a different job like, probably not. But one of the things I really like about you, Sophia, is that you are willing to look at what are the systems that are functional here? And what’s dysfunctional? What works for me, and what doesn’t? And then how can I function within larger dysfunctional systems? So for instance, in the patriarchy that I think, you know, if you’re listening to this, and you don’t agree that the patriarchy is a dysfunctional system, this isn’t the podcast for you, just so you know,


Sophia Wise One  17:30

a lot of you’re welcome to listen, but there’s gonna be some foundational principle concepts that we’re gonna be just seeing differently.


Heather Clark  17:38

I’ll be giving you lots of opportunity for Shadow Work, really. But at the same time, it’s, I suppose it’s possible you could completely get out of patriarchy. I don’t know how I don’t know how you could continue in the system without, or rather, in this culture without at least understanding you’re functionally functioning in that system. So what have you found that’s been helpful for you or not helpful and, like, talk to us about the navigation here?


Sophia Wise One  18:16

Oh, you know, that I look it up, I’ll look it up, I have a I have an episode on Vagina Talks with a guest named Jackson Reddy. And they did such an incredible breakdown of patriarchy and capitalism and the way that we have this conversation, the way that we get everything gets taken away from us, that’s inherently ours.


Sophia Wise One  18:44

And then it gets sold back to us. So we, we have to write we have to like pay for food with to pay for self worth, we have to pay for a relationship we have to we have to pay to learn how to communicate, how to understand and commune with plants, how to listen to our own body. And that gets stripped because those things get stripped away from us to make us lemmings and tools for the system.


Sophia Wise One  19:09

We can’t be empowered, conscious beings if we’re going to be like robots, or slaves or cogs in a machine and the industrial machine. So so so culturally, the those those powers have been stripped away. Yet, when we are in in especially like in this kind of Western colonized space. And all over the world. There’s these people that have enough space and connection that we inherently want these things and they are valuable.


Sophia Wise One  19:40

We want the connection with our our lovers, with our children, with our body with our health, right. And so then we want these things and then we how do we get them, we have to buy them. And then people who sell those things get told that they’re not valuable, they’re not important and get shamed for selling them. So this is like if anybody wants to come really hear like a big long rant on all of that? Well, I can give you a link for that episode because it’s it’s pretty rich.


Heather Clark  20:08

Yeah, absolutely.


Sophia Wise One  20:09

This This question is, is powerful? Dr. Heather, this is a very good question. This is a very good question I, how do we do it? How do we do it like this deep notion of like, how do we sleep at night? And I have to say, for me, I find my comfort and my peace and my strength and my courage through my, through an expanded timeline, through an ancestral context, and through an evolutionary context.


Sophia Wise One  20:56

And saying, there is a ever concept I work with sometimes the holy patience and the holy impatience. And the holy patience is, is the patience that’s the faith to say, yeah, this may be a shitstorm. But there’s something that’s so beyond me that’s happening, that I, I can trust what’s happening. I can accept what’s happening. And I can do my part, and trust that it’s enough. Right?


Sophia Wise One  21:29

The Holy impatience is the fire that says this is not okay. It was never Okay. Stop raping children. Stop putting children in cages. Stop telling every single person who has a body that their body is wrong for being too small, too big, too sexual, not sexual enough for being one gender or another, which is a fictional tool to control people anyway. Right? not okay. Not Oh, okay. Never okay. not okay.


Sophia Wise One  21:59

Today, the holy impatience that says no, and that that holy impatience, gets directed towards what is my part? What is my part. And so the holy impatience is the fire that that feeds the courage to say, I will not participate passively. In all of this, I will find my way to shift to the current.


Sophia Wise One  22:23

And then the holy patience says, it’s got to be enough. It’s not mine to control. I’m not this, I’m not. So Sophia incarnated with her like sweet little body, that’s like feeling better. And my like, like, Look, you know, looking at my little golden, my golden sunbaked hairs from you know, from the summer like this, this, this being is not the person who understand, like, Don’t give me, you know, I don’t want to, I don’t want that much control, I’m not going to tell you how to take care of every soul on this planet, and every plant on this planet, or the entire consciousness of the cosmos.


Sophia Wise One  23:00

That’s not my job. And yet, I feel deeply connected to that, to that collective, I’m not separate, I am not separate. And so the holy impatience that says, If I see it outside of me, it’s alive inside of me. Which means I must do what I need to do to make that no longer a truth in me. In what ways? Do I rape my own bodies? In what ways? Do I cage my innocence? In what ways do I lie and mitigate and manipulate and control and demand and shrink and overpower, because I have to find them and me, change them in me, and then be the be a presence that knows how to do it differently? Who is that differently and see it differently in the world have it be reflected differently in the world.


Sophia Wise One  23:54

And the holy patience says, I don’t have control over how that happens. I can only do what I can do. I’m in this limited form, coming from a limitless source that can change that change what I know is is limited and that that’s not a problem. That’s just it. I mean, I really use the framework of like, I’m a larper I’m a live action roleplay playing game person like costumes and foam swords, I’d like run around in the woods.


Sophia Wise One  24:25

I owned a summer camp and ran this program for a long time I did it as a teenager and ran this program for a long time and still do and periodically and this concept of like this being an adventure game, that like what we’re doing is this it’s it’s just bigger and and like these are the concepts that allow me to, to find humor, to find courage to find grace, to let go of control, to be willing to be different in my own self Well as in a world that says being different is dangerous.


Heather Clark  25:05

And it sounds like this is a great approach for someone who is like, wait, I suspect maybe I am fighting with my own body. And Geez, Sophia is in a state of affection with her body, how do I get there? And what I’m really hearing is that if you’re bringing this holy patience and holy impatience to your own life, that is a place where you can start to shift it.


Heather Clark  25:27

Like, so if you’re like, Okay, well, I find that I am othering my body or making it bad and wrong for being too big, too small to whatever. If I’m understanding correctly, that’s almost like, well, whose hands am I playing into here? Yes. How does that work? For me? Is that something I would set up for myself? Who benefits from that?


Sophia Wise One  25:47

Who benefits from this is a powerful question if we’re willing to be really honest about it? Yeah, and all the ways because like, we we will coping mechanisms work, they keep us alive. So there’s ways in which this habits that we have, even when they are a deterrent to our well being, are serving us in a way and having the courage to like, see how they’re serving us as well as recognizing that like hating my body plays into the patriarchy and makes them possible to control me in ways that right like both of those, like both of those ways, I feel like I cut you off.


Heather Clark  26:25

No, no, no, I totally agree. So using that the whole hating my body–what if? So, let’s jump into someone who Okay, maybe they they’re feeling either hate or shame or disgust or anything less than total and complete acceptance, affection and love for their body? intellectually they get Yep, totally get it. This is a patriarchal thing. Great. This is a capitalist thing. But that knowledge doesn’t exactly transform.


Sophia Wise One  26:52

No, it devastates largely, actually, yeah. The first phase is grief and rage. Yeah.


Heather Clark  26:58

And I love that you call that out. So for those of you that are listening, they’re like, okay, yeah, that’s a great story. So what the heck, like, okay, feel the grief feel the rage? Like, that’s normal? And then how could someone what’s worked for you? What works for your clients? How can they continue to walk that path?


Sophia Wise One  27:16

Yeah, you know, I make a joke, which is that, you know, people like, well, how did you heal from your allostatic load? And I said, Well, I got a couch, and I watched more television than I’ve ever watched in my entire life. That was, that was how I did it, you know, and, and that’s 100%, like, accurate, factually accurate and 100% not what shifted my–like, that’s not what did it that’s like, really, that’s not actually my prescription.


Sophia Wise One  27:44

I have a very difficult time staying still, I still sometimes use screentime, when I’m feeling really active, when my mind is feeling really active, and my body’s asking for rest. I will sometimes use screen time to, to entertain, entertain the minds activity and give my body a second to relax, I have to be really cautious or not cautious, mindful about what I watched. Because if I I get very into things, so if I watch high adrenaline, movies, or television, it doesn’t actually serve.


Sophia Wise One  28:16

So I watch when I’m like this, I watch a lot of like, teeny boppy, like girl teeny boppy movies, like the Unicorn and the Pegasus because, and I get bored and it’s fine. But it’s like, that’s kind of the point is to like, teach yourself how to do it.


Sophia Wise One  28:31

So, okay, so Okay, so you’ve done the rage, you’ve done the grief. That’s like, kind of one of my zones of genius is to help people like beat navigate that part. But I will tell I’m happy to talk about what’s the other part? What’s the quiet.


Sophia Wise One  28:46

So one of the things is what I was actually doing when I wasn’t watching the television laying on my couch was I was journaling. And I was meditating. And I was asking where I was, where I was leaking, where I was pouring out my energy, where I was using it in a way that wasn’t functional. And I was taking that time that deeper reflection.


Sophia Wise One  29:16

So if we’re talking about kind of a generalized hatred of the body, some of those questions might be what daily things do I do to undermine? My two like to hurt my my view, like when I see myself physically, when I see my reflection, what am I doing?


Sophia Wise One  29:42

Like that’s reinforcing it, or where in my history, where did I Where did I learn this from? How did I learn it? So some of some of these concepts of of looking and getting that getting that context. And then one of the concepts that I work with was is that the balm is in the wound.


Sophia Wise One  30:00

And so when you can get into the part that really aches, it’s telling you exactly what you’re needing. The pain, the rage, the grief is actually a request letter for what’s important to you. And so it’s not just that after the grief and the rage, it’s in the grief and the rage. That’s where you really start listening and stop fighting. Because emotionality is a body experience.


Sophia Wise One  30:35

It’s hormones that flood the system, when we cry, our hormones come out in our tears, we literally actually cry it out, comes out our snot comes out our drool, it literally leaks out of our body. And so we’re processing these things. And and when we process them, they’re carrying information.


Sophia Wise One  30:56

And part of giving up the fight of the body is, is putting down the weapons. So sometimes it’s like what weapon are you using to attack yourself? Do you use nasty language? Do you use a sort of kind of behavior, a numbing behavior or a dominating behavior? Looking at what what tools do you use as weapons on yourself, and then one by one putting them down. So I remember when I made a vow to myself that I would no longer name call myself out loud or in my head. And so that I had to catch my name calling and stop it.


Sophia Wise One  31:31

And one of the things that I want to offer is that the, you know, for me that allostatic load ADHD place for me revealed to me that I had been taught how to use a system. It’s like I, you described it as I had the wrong software for my hardware. If you put like the wrong program in a different computer, it can break the hardware.


Sophia Wise One  32:02

And so my, my system and so what I had to do was I on install the old software, and then, you know, reinstall the new software. And so that uninstal is is that grief, that rage, that context, that understanding.


Sophia Wise One  32:21

And the installing, which is what I think you’re talking about, I think one of the reasons I almost feel like I’m stalling, but I’m not, I’m not really stalling, I’m just looking for one of the reasons that that’s hard to talk about is because the remedy is going to be inside your aches. It’s going to be inside your desire, and your ecstasy.


Sophia Wise One  32:41

And so but to have the courage to go into our ecstasy, one of the things is because we can’t control what we what we’re open to and what we’re not, we can’t like decide what feelings we can feel and what feelings we can’t.


Sophia Wise One  32:55

Having access to our deep desires, our open heart our great ecstasy also means being open to our deep grief and our deep rage and our deep aches.


Sophia Wise One  33:05

And so, you know, having the courage to open all of that and then get access to the information. Now what you would only want to open it that if you decided that the information was worthwhile, or else you just muting it would be okay.


Sophia Wise One  33:20

But the information of how your life is going to work for you is inside, it’s inside the body. I’ll give one other kind of like a like tip tip to like do which is that when I’m when I’m doing this work with myself when I’m meditating, or when I’m walking, or I’m having a conversation or I’m feeling irritated and I’m like how do I how do I reorient? How do I look for what’s really happening? How do I give up the fight if I notice that I’m fighting with myself?


Sophia Wise One  33:48

And one of the first things I do is I observe what I’m feeling in my body, just naming it like in my own head. So like, I feel really I do I feel really great in my body right now. And I can name this tension that I feel along the left side of my spine. I can feel some tension that’s behind my eyebrows in my eyes. And like a soreness, like a heat and a soreness behind my eyes right now. And so I’m just naming those.


Sophia Wise One  34:19

And the courage here that the the thing that is not not the patriarchy the thing that is the peacemaking in this is that instead of trying to fix all of those things I just named I get curious. I get kind. And I’m like okay, and what do I need?


Sophia Wise One  34:38

And really beginning to have the conversation changing the fight of going Oh, why are you headache? Why are you causing me so much problems? And then not answering like, just just go away? Get out of here, right? And going oh I have a headache. Like what is that? Is that water? Is that minerals? Is that quiet?


Sophia Wise One  34:59

So many People get headaches when they need to lay down and turn off the lights. And I mean that like in the metaphor and the actual, like, people, their heads are full, and it’s like, lower the stimulus. And then if you can output that stimulus, either through breath, or through journaling, and I journal sometimes in the dark when I feel really stressed, because it’s not about being able to read it later.


Sophia Wise One  35:23

It’s about emptying, you know, and so I, you know, I’m talking about, I mean, I hope this was useful. It’s like, it’s like, you know, in that, I think there’s it, there’s in the specificity, it can be really useful. And also, it’s like, I want to give general pointers. And it’s like, one of the things that’s so tricky is that we’ve been conditioned to, like, think that there’s this quick fix, you know, it’s like it took about three years. And about six months, I was feeling better. And, and it took three years for me to feel like, good. And it took four years for me to feel healthy and energized, and vibrant. But my whole life has shifted so that I trust that and that’s building in that way. And I did that through like redirect, redirect, redirect.


Sophia Wise One  36:13

And four years is very fast. This is that holy patience. Remember, four years is fucking fast in comparison to the 32 years, plus all the epigenetics that I inherited, the stress patterns that I inherited Previous to that four years is very brief, in comparison to, to a life.


Heather Clark  36:34

Absolutely. And I know that, at least with the Burnout Cure, and adrenal fatigue recovery and all of that, that’s, that’s what I tell people, like, I’m like, you don’t have to have a program and a plan. If you’re willing to do the work, you can get this done for yourself in about four or five years. There’s a plan that can make this happen a lot faster. Depending on where you start, you could complete it or at least be well on your way, in as little as six months. But for most people, it’s about a year, but you feel dramatically better. And the only real difference is it’s a structured program. And if you’re willing to do the deep dive, if you’re willing to do the work, then it’s a permanent transformation like you. It won’t happen again. Just like what are the odds that this will happen to you again, it’s like pretty close to zero, right?


Sophia Wise One  37:27

Yeah, you know, one of the things I trained myself to do this is this is a great tip. I’ve trained myself to put myself to bed before I was tired. Right feed myself before I was hungry. Like and I don’t mean, like, when I don’t have an appetite. I mean, like I try to feed myself when I’m like when I’m like appetite and ready to eat as opposed to like hangry or putting myself to bed when I’m like exhausted. Right? But it’s like, I that’s what I thought I did. I mean, that’s what I lived my life was like, you go until you can’t go anymore. And I had to learn how to go until I was like, Oh, I feel like I’m like kind of done.


Sophia Wise One  38:01

And it was so weird for me to be like out with friends and be like, I’m going to go home and go to bed and they look at me like, what and I was like, it’s nine o’clock. They’re like, what, like, I gotta go to bed. Like, now,


Sophia Wise One  38:16

and I gotta go to bed slow. Like, I got a wind down. You know? And yeah, I’ll set you know, I say that for me What? Yeah, yeah, and I appreciate you saying that, because that structure is, you know, I felt dramatically different in six months, my life, I wouldn’t set I was not, I wouldn’t qualify with like, I was not having a I was not an allostatic load a year later.


Sophia Wise One  38:38

I was like, I could, you know, I could walk again, I could run I could, like do all of those things, you know. And, and, and, and, and, like, structure is huge, especially when we’re talking about recovering from stress, which is largely a responsibility game. You know, one of the things that I realized was leading to my ADHD that was leading to my stress factor was my codependence.


Sophia Wise One  39:09

And I think that’s actually the one that if that’s the that was the largest piece that took me the longest to navigate. If I’m really honest about what was those next two years, those next two years for my body had largely recovered. But I was still but it was this piece of that taking that emotional responsibility on of other people that was draining me and leaking me and dragging me down. And I was it took it took time. It took time and more some more desperation for me to really, really confront and be willing to let that go.


Heather Clark  39:46

Yeah, it’s it’s that’s why I talk about balanced responsibility, take responsibility for what’s yours–not blame, responsibility–but only for what’s yours. And I think a lot of times, most of the stress not all of the stress but most of the stress in life comes from conditioned obligations, living into all these obligations. What am I supposed to do? Where am I supposed to be at? I want to look good. I’m a high performer. And I get a lot of benefit from that. And it’s just it’s really living into this one way to frame it would be this capitalist lifestyle.


Sophia Wise One  40:17



Heather Clark  40:18

But and that’s why I talk about I wanted to highlight for people who are listening, the crippling fatigue that can come along with this is actually a gift. Because I know when it happened to me, it was the only thing that slowed me down enough to get my attention. And I, I got to the point where I was so tired, I could hardly read. And for people that know me, they’re like, Oh, my God, you could hardly read. Are you? Okay? I was not.


Sophia Wise One  40:42

Right. But the answer is no.


Heather Clark  40:44

So it was just like, total introspection. And then I was like, oh, if I’m honest, this really isn’t working for me. But it’s supposed to work for me. And it’s not working for me. And then I went through the and, oh, I’m wrong, and I bad and how come I can’t figure this out? And everybody else can? And the secret is, no. Like, this isn’t figured out. This is no, it’s, it’s untenable. It just doesn’t work.


Sophia Wise One  41:14

Yeah, I mean, it’s, and it’s like, you know, I just feel like science is really coming on, let’s really grow it up. You know, science is really young. And it’s like, really, it’s doing a really good job. It’s like, it’s really proud of it. It’s just really, really coming along. And they’re just doing a lot of research around illness, right?


Sophia Wise One  41:33

And people looking around going like, well, how come everybody else can do it. And I’m like, our country is so sick. Very few people are, quote, unquote, doing it. Like, you know, people are people, like people are sick, being healthy is inherently means you’re inherently being counterculture, in this world, like in this kind of dominant Western world to be healthy to get the amount of rest, the amount of play, the amount of pleasure, the amount of great nutrition, the amount of body exercise and the amount of deep connection that we’re designed and optimized to have in different degrees for different people in different bodies in different ways. Right.


Sophia Wise One  42:12

So deep connection for one person might be like, you know, a deep conversation with one friend once a week, because they’re really like very much a deep hermit, but they need that one conversation, you know, and for someone else, it’s like, they need to be socially engaged every day all day, to be in their vibrancy. But to be aligned to your own self in that way, to just live a life where you’re where those are the things that you’re doing, is incredibly, I mean, it’s a it’s, it’s radical, it’s radical. And I think that that’s really important.


Sophia Wise One  42:43

And I just love that. I don’t know, I just love systems that work is how I feel about it. And so when you talk about being able to walk people through a six month to a year process, you know, I mean, that was so much of what I was, that’s what I was looking for. In that moment, I was like, you know, when I was looking, I was looking for that with the ADHD piece to just being like, how do I? How do I do this different? How do I do this differently? You know,


Heather Clark  43:11

And that’s part of the issue that when you’re in the problem, when you’re in the experience of the the allostatic, load the adrenal fatigue, ADHD issues, when you’re in that experience, it’s difficult to find the answers that resonate to the solution. Because you’re so deeply in the problem.


Heather Clark  43:29

And stress issues, especially they change how you think they change your ability to see possibilities, because when I tell people yeah, like, depending on where you’re at, if you’re really bad, often, it’s probably be a year before you get back up to feeling way better than you’ve ever felt before. And they’re like, I just don’t believe that’s possible. I’m like, but it is, it’s just that the way your brain is your brain on stress, is trying to tell you it’s not possible. But it is.


Sophia Wise One  44:00

So true.


Heather Clark  44:01

And that’s where I love this idea of the the holy patience like okay, I don’t necessarily get that, okay, cool. I’m willing to be patient and I know that this is enough, like for you to bring in that and then be impatient with. It’s not really okay for me to feel like this. And it’s not ok for me to be trapped here. And it’s not okay for me to be in these systems. Like I love this idea of the holy impatience. And then taking whatever action is available to you in that moment, and then activating that holy patience to to just trust the next step will appear.


Sophia Wise One  44:38

I mean, that is that right there, what you just described like that this the mean, what I’ve shared and how you’ve shared back with, it’s like, I just, there are other pads and most of the paths that I know of true and lasting transformation are are that, right? It’s like what else can you do except make a choice in a moment. That’s different, you know, make a different choice and that’s a risk. It’s always a risk.


Sophia Wise One  45:02

You know, and I think that’s the other thing about our brain on stress is like, often we’re looking for the low risk choice. And when you’re talking about changing behaviors of thinking or feeling or action, it engages, like it can really engage your risk response. And so there has to be, that’s where that holy impatience is like, I can’t wait. I can’t wait as it’s a gift. It’s like, No, you can’t. You can’t wait. You can’t wait another day.


Sophia Wise One  45:30

Today is the day. Today’s the day you take the rest Today’s the day you do something different. is, yeah, it’s a gift. To transform. It’s a gift. If we take it, right. It’s a gift for transformation. And I’ll say take it meaning like receive it, if we take it in if we take the impatience in. And then this is what I mean by like trusting and emotion, like you take the impatience in, it’s like, I’m impatient. For what?


Sophia Wise One  45:56

And finding that and then moving from that place, versus having the impatience come and being like, Oh, I’m so impatient. And just being in this, like, I’m impatient, but not taking it in not feeling what the what the, what it’s really moving in you, but having this resistance to the impatience, like, I just want it to happen faster, and then turning away. Instead of saying, I just wanted to happen faster, and leaning in and going, what was that? Deep wisdom coming to me in the cloak of impatience? Like, what exactly are you asking for? You’re asking for a peaceful world. Okay? What can I do? What can I do right now, in this place in this moment, we always have more options and choices in a moment than we think we do.


Sophia Wise One  46:39

And that’s part of what consciousness and healing and coming home to ourselves gives us. And that’s part of what the stret when we, when we lower our stress levels, one of the things that happens with with us brain on stress is that we go from point A to Z very fast. And when I say you say like, they didn’t pick up the phone, they’re divorcing me, they’ve stolen the children and I and it’s over.


Sophia Wise One  47:06

And it’s like, okay, literally, they were pissing in a toilet, and they called you back four minutes later, right? But it’s like, that’s what that’s what the fucking brain on stress does is like, it’s over, it’s over. It’s over. They’re never available when I need them. You know, it’s like, okay, like, really not what’s happening. And so but that moment, we think it’s just ADD, oh, I’m stressed. That’s nothing.


Sophia Wise One  47:26

But what happens when we come in to ourselves is that in some ways, it’s like time or our thinking expands. And so what happens is when you call and someone doesn’t pick up and the feeling is like, I really need them, right? Then it’s like, okay, I really need, what do I need, right? I need support. I need someone to show up. I need to take a breath I need and so then it’s a choice. How do I get support? How do I take a breath? How that’s where the oxygen choices come in, and that four minute window, right?


Sophia Wise One  47:56

I’m afraid that my marriage is falling apart. Okay, well, like maybe you want to think about how you want to engage differently in your marriage. Like, that can be its own. And if your first instinct is it’s over, maybe there’s something that you can do in that moment of how can I bring more loving affection?


Sophia Wise One  48:11

And, and this sounds like dreamy talk to a brain on stress. What I’m talking about right now is like, what, that’s not how it works, Sophia. And I’m like, Oh, that’s what I’m telling you. It can work that way. Like, that’s exactly what it can, it doesn’t in that other place. And that getting from like, I hate my body and I don’t want to be alive. You know, or I, you know, I didn’t quite have full blown suicidal ideation. I just had, like, I don’t life exhaustion. I don’t know, just like his lack of enthusiasm. I was just like waiting. I was like,


Heather Clark  48:42

Stop right here and tell you a dirty little secret that okay, almost everybody that has had adrenal fatigue and burnout, almost everybody has had some suicidal thoughts. It’s super common, and nobody talks about it.


Sophia Wise One  48:56

I’m so glad. I’m so glad talking about it. So glad I said it. Yeah. And,


Heather Clark  49:01

And sometimes it’s like, it’s real serious and let’s get somebody called, but most of the time, it seems to me like it is just a crying out for this cannot continue. But there’s no tools already in the toolbox to know what else to do about it.


Sophia Wise One  49:20

Right? This can’t be it. Right? It’s like if this is what it is. I don’t want it is Yeah, right. Yeah.


Heather Clark  49:25

And I’m gonna work real hard and recover and for what, like, why would I bother?


Sophia Wise One  49:30



Heather Clark  49:30

That’s super common.


Sophia Wise One  49:31

right, you’re right. Especially if the life that you had that burned you out was the checklist of things that were supposed to make you happy.


Heather Clark  49:39

Right and almost always it is as well.


Sophia Wise One  49:42

Like I checked the list that was supposed to make me happy. It didn’t make me happy. It made me sick. So what the fuck exactly like why why would I want what I want what I and why would I? So, so understandable. So I guess like right speaking from that place of just being like, why am I here? I don’t want to be doing this. I hate this like, Like what? Like, what would I and why would I, too?


Sophia Wise One  50:05

I’m so grateful that I have my sweet and I don’t I’m not mocking myself. I’m just saying like this like, it’s like this blissful place. Like, I’m the person who when people talk about inner peace or happiness, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s cute. Like, that’s like a, that’s a concept. That’s like a thing that people talk about, or like, it’s momentary. I didn’t know that it was something that you could really experience in your own being I didn’t, I really didn’t.


Sophia Wise One  50:27

And so it’s like, you know, because I was tolerating being alive, like most of my life. And, and that’s really common, it’s painful. And when we are in pain, and we don’t have tools, and when we’re in pain, and we’re told that what we’re in pain about is normal. That’s insane. Yeah. Like when we’re like, when we’re children, and we’re like, I think war is stupid. And beating people and killing people is a is a bad idea. And people are like, yeah, yeah, you don’t understand.


Sophia Wise One  50:59

Like, there’s a there’s something that happens in that moment, I think, in all of us, where we’re like, What the fuck are we doing here? Like, how are you like, what? Like, what? You know, and then we’re like, okay, that’s just how it is. Then we walk around going. I know, like, so fucked up. Like what? Like there’s, there’s something that there’s a right as an ensuite, like what like what there’s an enthusiasm there’s there can be a real loss of soul.


Sophia Wise One  51:24

I’ve one teacher who says the soul doesn’t stay where it’s not recognized as sacred. And so when very early on, there’s so many ways in which this dominant culture, I don’t even want to say dominant because it’s losing the fucking ground fast. You know, this, the, the, the, this patriarchal white supremacist capitalist dominion kind of shitshow landscape that all of us have been baked in, that are coming through this and are in are in the process of like, right trying to find our way to doing something different. It’s, it’s insidious, the the ways in which those seeds are planted for us to not care about our own life.


Heather Clark  52:10

Yes. And in addition, we’re conditioned for that. We’re told ‘Love your neighbor’, but the adults in our life, a lot of times the actions are not matching the words and it’s like, let the gaslighting begin.


Sophia Wise One  52:25

Yes. Right.


Heather Clark  52:28

And then sort of like, Okay, well, I’m somehow wrong about this. Because you know, when you’re four, you don’t get that. Okay. Well, the adults don’t know what they’re doing either, right? You don’t know that.


Sophia Wise One  52:40

This is what we do. Okay.


Heather Clark  52:42

Yeah. And then, and it’s almost like, it’s really subversive to be fully alive. It and, and it’s very confronting for people, which is fascinating, because you think, Okay, well, everybody wants to be fully alive. And I think they do. But then when you get right down to Oh, well, you know, and like, the conditioning has us accepting a lot less. And not that that’s wrong. But we’re doing it because we feel like we have to it’s like an obligation to accept less and if we accept more than I won’t be in the cave by the fire anymore.


Sophia Wise One  53:22

Right? longing survival. It’s not. It’s not complicated. And I think that’s the part for me is like, when you start to really look it’s not complicated or confusing. We are told that what we want is confusing that like let the gaslighting begin we’re trained to Gaslight ourselves to ourselves, that’s what we do we Gaslight our boss, we’d like Gaslight, the messages from our body and the and the emotional. Like we’re doing that all the time, where it’s like, the our heart is like, that was fucked up. I don’t like that. And we’re like, No, no, you just don’t understand. This is how it works in corporate.


Sophia Wise One  53:56

You know, it’s like, I feel sick to my stomach. And it’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you need to shut up. Because this is just what entertainment is. It’s like, it’s just like, what, like we do. We’re trained to do that to ourselves, you know, and I think that it’s like, it’s like, Oh, I like that, like, especially people’s sexuality. They get all you know, we it’s like, you’re only supposed to like these three things. I don’t know what they are. But they’re very specific. And they don’t apply to me probably. And, and you can only like them in these circumstances, you know,


Sophia Wise One  54:26

 so then you’re walking around going, like, Oh my god, I smell that flower. And I like heard these people laughing. And then my body felt like all good. And I like the breeze. And then I like looked at my lover and I was just like, oh my god, I just want them to like, eat my shoulder. And I’m like, this is I’m being weird. And then you like shut it down. It’s like, what was weird about that? Nothing weird about that. What happened? Like why are we Why don’t we?


Sophia Wise One  54:49

That’s a good that’s a nice afternoon like what’s happening, you know, but it’s like, but it’s not. It’s not this thing that I was told, you know, or it’s like, or you watch someone you know, just think about all my friends that are just like Don’t like it can go to like all you know, all these places like you watch someone, I think about physical exertion, like a watch some watch something get get bumped, you know, and it’s like, you get bumped somebody bumps you and it’s like surprising and then it like turns you on and you’re like, Oh my god, I’m such a fucking weirdo shut down, shut down, shut down, you know, and it’s just like, okay, so I like to be pushed around. That’s not weird, actually, you know, lots of people do, it’s okay.


Sophia Wise One  55:27

And it’s okay, if you that that was just a moment, you know, it’s like we’re so afraid to. We’re so trained and conditioned. And again, I love that, like, we’re conditioned, because that’s the cue word. That’s the good news. Because we can just, we can uninstall that program and reinstall, we can condition ourselves for something else. I’m good. I’ve been conditioning myself to be peacemaking, and accepting of like, sane and beautiful things. I refer to myself as having a severe case of sanity in this world. Severe it’s a severe case of sanity, there are things that I walk around all the time, and people are just like, Yeah, well, that’s just what it is. And I’m like, No, like, No, just because it’s common doesn’t mean that it’s sane or right.


Heather Clark  56:12

Yeah. Well, and that requires a fair amount of courage as well, to just be like, yeah, this isn’t okay. Or I disagree with your viewpoint. Or it’s like willing to be weird. It’s like, it just takes courage. But there’s so much joy on the other side of it. And then when you do it, you’re like, Okay, well, it wasn’t that big of a deal. Okay.


Sophia Wise One  56:33

Typically, typically,


Heather Clark  56:35

Oh, my life did not crumble around me. Okay.


Sophia Wise One  56:37

Yeah, I like to I like to warn people like the level of life crumble that I do when I’m like doing this transformation. I’m like, first of all, I’ve trained for this a long time I’m basically like an Olympic like life transformational…I’m like a gymnast at it, like, I really am like a high dive like I really go for it, you know? Because I, you know, this way that I kind of like it’s like, and then kaboom, kaboom. Like blowing up my life. It’s like, Yeah, well, I’m just kind of I’m like a high impact person.


Sophia Wise One  57:01

You know, that’s like, not really what you need to do. To have real and lasting change in your life. You know, I mean, some people utterly changed the lives when they just learn how to say no. Full stop. learn to say no, they learn how to say no, thank you. No, thank you for the invitation. No, I’m not available. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I love that you asked me asked me again sometime. No. Right. No, I won’t be there. Why not available? Why I’m gonna take a bath. You’re gonna miss your niece’s birthday party for a bath? Yes, I am. Like, yeah, Yes, I am. Yep. And you know what I’m gonna do, I’m going to show up next week when I feel fucking fabulous. And I’m going to be present with that human in the way that’s most important to me. Yes, I am. Right. Like, that’s what we get to step into.


Heather Clark  57:57

Like, absolutely. And you’re even offering explanations, which I don’t even think is required.


Sophia Wise One  58:01

No, not at all. Not at all. I’ll –right I agree.


Heather Clark  58:05

And why not? Because it doesn’t work for me. That’s it.


Sophia Wise One  58:08

Right? doesn’t work for me. I’m not available. It’s not gonna work. That’s it. That’s the whole thing. I like to share the like explanation is I do think there is a way in which, when we want to build connection, what is it to have the courage to say, to share and say like, no, because this is what I am saying yes to in my life, that’s an intimacy act, not to not to justify what you’re doing, but to share yourself.


Sophia Wise One  58:33

And if you can’t share yourself, without using it as a justification, that I would encourage you to not take a lot out of the justification. If you are steady in your boundary, and you’re sharing yourself that’s called intimacy. And that’s pleasurable, and satisfies deep needs for most of us.


Sophia Wise One  58:53

You know, and so learning how to say no, and I’ll say this learning how to say yes, is also transformative. I mean, the amount of time that people say no to the things that they want, and yes to the things that they don’t want to do is this Bizarro alternative world that I listen to people talk about all the time.


Sophia Wise One  59:12

Well, they’re like, well, I can’t do this on Friday, because I have to do this on Friday. And I’m like, you can’t do that thing that you want. Because you have to do the thing you don’t want to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuz it’s my yada yada because I said I, because and I’m like, okay, I just want you to know that you are, that’s what you’re you are doing that. That’s what you’re doing. And I was like, that’s what I used to do, right? Like, that’s what I used to do.


Sophia Wise One  59:33

And it turned out when my whole body collapsed, and I’d rather be dead. It wasn’t worth it. You know, and so if there’s any permission slip that I can give to anyone ever. That’s like, how about you don’t want to be dead? To be enough permission. How about you just decide you’re worth being alive, like let my words -like let Dr. Heather and I’s conversation right now. Just wash through you and say like, whatever pain or suffering you’ve had up till now is enough. And this like blessing is enough for you to just start living the life that is generative and kind to yourself and to the world that you want. Without having to wreck yourself any farther as justification.


Sophia Wise One  1:00:18

I’ve used that I used there was a certain degree of using my I have to do this for my health. That was a justification that was still a perpetuation of that. Inside, even if I was not doing it outside inside, I was like, well, they can be mad at me, but I have to do this for me, or else it’s bad for me. We’re just like, what if it’s just because I, what if it’s just because I’m a whole being and this is how I’m, what if I have no reason except my intuitions?


Sophia Wise One  1:00:43

Like, I gotta go. That’s it. I gotta go. I don’t know why. I don’t have to know why I trust that that’s how I live my life. You don’t have to live your life that way. I get to, you know, I’m where it’s like, there’s, it’s like, that’s, yeah, that’s that to me, I’m layer by layer by layer that’s like, so much of what as I’ve kind of offered my life to myself, you know, offered my life to God, which really just means offering my life to myself to my to, to this divine inspiration that comes to me and saying, Can I give up the justification, and the battle and the fight with my body with my relationships with my life, you know, design a different life.


Heather Clark  1:01:27

Beautiful. So tell me, so how did you come to be doing this? What’s your origin story?


Sophia Wise One  1:01:35

Oh, let’s see.


Sophia Wise One  1:01:40

I was a little baby mystic. I was like one of those little pumpkins that came out and was like, before I came here when I was talking to God. I was one of those little pumpkins. I think there was a lot of pumpkins like that. And people go like, Oh, that’s cute. Or they don’t talk about it. They like listen to it. And I grew up in a family that not only listened to my stories, but told them back to me, said like, you used to tell the story. Like you used to tell us this. I told my family like I picked them and all of these things. And I grew up my dad’s an organizational psychologist, my mom is a actress and director and a yoga teacher and and a school teacher school teacher for 17 years before that school teacher.


Sophia Wise One  1:02:27

And then she got chronic fatigue and and so with through a theater LARPing live action role playing and kind of my mom’s alternate TiVo health, right because the in the 80s Western medicine was like chronic fatigue isn’t real and then just told her you know, so then she had to go other places to get help and support which they did think I mean, numerous people make a huge difference in her life and thus in my life, really began my patchwork training in body body work body listening, spirituality, and,


Sophia Wise One  1:03:07

and just kind of came up through all of those years of just kind of grew up in that like hippie field plus that like, chronic health issue family coping mechanism codependent. Everybody use your gift as your superpower to get through, which then becomes your like weakness.


Sophia Wise One  1:03:25

You have to like remaster it, I had a mental breakdown when I was 19. After I left my family origin, I went to college. And then I went, I fell in love and, and then they left the college and all of my kind of trauma, stuff that I had kind of kept under wraps just exploded out of me. And, and my, my cycles got really severe. And that’s when I got diagnosed with pmdd.


Sophia Wise One  1:03:54

And I had had enough training in that in that faith. And in that body, it was like I really turned to and I also have had enough exposure of like Western medical system as being like highly flawed and young. And sometimes well intended. And sometimes mal intended. seen that I’d really seen a lot of mistreatment, and experienced some of my own and I had massive digestive issues when I was a teenager, obviously.


Sophia Wise One  1:04:24

Now it’s not confusing. So kind of stressed, stressed, sweet little darling that I was. And the only thing I went to doctors I would got bla bla bla yada, everybody tried all these things, but the only thing that helped was I got acupuncture twice a week.


Sophia Wise One  1:04:40

And if I missed acupuncture, my digestion would just go out of the window. So you know, after having multiple experiences of like, these are the people that I trust to really without confusion I had with my TMJ. I had an incredible physical therapist. She was the first person I think at 12 she held a mirror in front of my face and she said, look yourself in the eyes say I love you three times. And if you laugh, it doesn’t count. And by the time I got to the second I love you, I was weeping.


Sophia Wise One  1:05:09

And you know, and that was one of you know, that was that was one of the places that I first learned, like how many of us need to be able to look ourselves in the eye and say, I love you. And from there really learn how to say I hear you, I’m listening, tell me more. I’m here for you. I want to be here with you.


Sophia Wise One  1:05:27

I mean, talk about like a treatment for suicidal ideation as being able to look yourself in the eye and say, I want to be here, I’m not going. You can, you can want to go or not want to go, but I want to be here with you, you’re who I want to be here with. And sometimes to say that, honestly, sometimes there’s some real wrestling that needs to happen before.


Sophia Wise One  1:05:46

You know, there’s a lot of confessions, there’s like giving voice to that space. It’s like, I don’t want to be here, and to be able to look back at myself and be like, I get that that makes sense. But I want to be where you are, you know. So I got theater training, I went to New York ensemble theater, got a– I’m a licensed massage therapist, I’m do over 20 trained in over 20 different healing modalities.


Sophia Wise One  1:06:10

You know, had an epiphany or I was like, I guess I should probably figure out how to like actually make some money maybe someday. And I was like, this whole weird life is weird. So okay, and started down the rabbit hole of entrepreneurial funnels, email lists and


Sophia Wise One  1:06:30

conversion rates, and really embarked on a powerful journey of exposure and embodiment. And just this past year, have really been coming in embracing my like deep, deep, deep pleasure roots of being a singer and a performer and a poet, and a storyteller, and recognizing that everything else that I do, I enjoy and I from that place that that’s really my well,


Sophia Wise One  1:06:59

that’s my well, right you see the plant and it’s like there’s a real it’s my Well, that’s my wellness is is is my singing my music, my my praying, my performing. And so I’d worked with private clients for a long time. I very rarely do that.


Sophia Wise One  1:07:15

Now periodically, I’ll take on a private client work with someone and help them walk through some transformation. I’m trained in pelvic floor work interventional, pelvic floor work. But you know, so it’s like it like these different pieces, you know, almost everything that I got into, I got into because I needed it for myself. So I got into womb reclamation and blood reclamation, because of my pmdd because of my pre menstrual womb stuff.


Sophia Wise One  1:07:41

You know, I just was like, I needed I clocked my cycle and I really got in relationship with my blood. And, and, you know, my creative, it’s just like, my, all my origin stories are like, yeah, if I was fucked, I like lost my mind. My body broke and got some answers. And now I have some skills, I happy to share them with you. So that’s a very, I don’t think I’ve ever quite told my horror story quite like that.


Sophia Wise One  1:08:05

But that’s a little bit of like many origins, many, many origins. But yeah, I mean, it’s really like, you know, I just, I finished I went back and got my BA in liberal pedagogy, and health, community health, you know, how we, how we collectively heal together through our, through our education, through our expression through our fulfillment.


Sophia Wise One  1:08:31

And so all just patchwork of like, my, it’s just a lot of patchwork, like I listened and looked and learned and gathered and gathered and gathered. And then pour and then do my best just do my best to pour out the wisdom, the teachings, the teachers, what I’ve been, been blessed with, walked with so many incredible beings, like, in so many ways, and yeah, yeah.


Heather Clark  1:09:00

Love that. And I especially love that this is like, the reason why I was called to all of this is because it was happening to me. And I’m sure you’ve had a similar experience in that. When you’re working with people, it’s really nice. When they’ve actually been there before, it’s a different level of empathy. It’s a different understanding. And even if the person you’re working with doesn’t have exactly your same experience, you’re like, I get the flavor. I get the vibe.


Sophia Wise One  1:09:28

I always tell people when they’re looking for a therapist or a coach, you want to find someone who doesn’t find your story interesting.


Heather Clark  1:09:37

I love that.


Sophia Wise One  1:09:38

Yes. Yeah. They can care. They can be super into it. A lot of empathy, a lot of understanding a lot of information, but not interesting. not new. It’s not what you’re looking for. You’re not someone who’s like, wow, this is fascinating. You want someone who’s like Yep, yep, yep. Uh huh. Yep, yep. Oh, okay. I see. Okay. Yep. Got it. That makes sense. Yeah, they’ll talk Yeah, for sure. Okay, all right. That’s how that happened for you. Okay. Yep. Yep. Yep.


Sophia Wise One  1:10:05

That’s what you’re looking for. You’re looking for someone who’s gonna Yep. Just be like, yeah, yeah. Because although we are like so unique in, in the addiction world, they call it terminally unique. This idea of like, nobody knows, nobody knows what I’ve been through. Nobody will ever understand me. And like, on one hand, yeah, that’s true. Like, entirely? Absolutely, yes. And, like, we’re not, we’re not confusing. Like, we like a lot of people. There’s especially like, in most circumstances, like, there’s a lot of information out there. My dad said the other day. So what did he say? If he was like a quote, he was saying a thing that he says, sometimes I’m trying to remember, he goes,


Sophia Wise One  1:10:50

all of us always knows more than one of us.


Sophia Wise One  1:10:56

And when you when you work with a practitioner, who’s been through it themselves, and has worked with other people on the subject matter, you know, or it’s just very thorough in it in their own way, that you’re getting access to knowledge that is all of us.


Sophia Wise One  1:11:14

Something that knows all of us, you know, and you don’t want to walk in there and be a saint, I mean, so much, especially with people, eating disorders, and recovery. And all of these things, I’m like, you just find someone who doesn’t find you interesting, because you’re an interesting match of everything.


Sophia Wise One  1:11:32

And sometimes to kind of get to that place, you got to really build a team that the other thing that I want to just echo out here, I’m a huge advocate of like, no one person has to know everything. And so. So if you find someone who really gets three out of four of your elements, really gets them, then just look for the other person who, who gets who covers that fourth, and still gets a couple of the others like that you can, that you can usually find, you know, like I’m looking for someone who just doing allostatic load with ADHD people that’s going to that’s going to bring someone into a closer understanding of what I’m looking for.


Sophia Wise One  1:12:06

And like preferably, maybe they understand like queer which world? Sure. That could be cool. ancestral reclamation, but like, not necessarily needed. If I have queer rich world ancestral reclamation and ADHD over here, you know, like, between those two sources, I can really get what I need. And that what I just described, is I want people to understand how deeply this kind of patriarchal stuff goes. Just that idea is a is a is a counter perspective. I’m talking about communal support. I’m talking about multifaceted network of support. And that’s contrary to what we’re trained, which is that like, we there’s always on authority, who should have an answer.


Heather Clark  1:12:54

Yeah, and what I’m coming to see, it’s really, no matter what their background and experience, are they able to truly see you.


Sophia Wise One  1:13:02

Oh, yeah,


Heather Clark  1:13:03

without judgment. Listen to you deeply and hold the space for you to be you.


Sophia Wise One  1:13:08

Yeah. Oh, that mean, that’s everything.


Heather Clark  1:13:10

Yeah. And if you can’t do that, like,


Sophia Wise One  1:13:13

sometimes those things with no knowledge will transform and heal you faster and more thoroughly than any other experience or knowledge. I mean, someone who can really just see you because I was gonna say there is one authority in every room and every circumstance that you’re in, and that’s you. The question is, do you have access to that authority?


Sophia Wise One  1:13:29

You know, because there is one authority on the subject, but it’s not outside you. And so, the network outside people who are going to support you to have to access that authority. That’s, that’s what the team is for.


Heather Clark  1:13:43

Yes, yes. Yay.


Sophia Wise One  1:13:47

Yeah, really? Were Oh,


Heather Clark  1:13:50

that’s awesome. So I also want to know, what’s it mean to you to be unshakable?


Heather Clark  1:14:10

To love it when something hits you like you didn’t expect it to? Yeah.


Sophia Wise One  1:14:20

I’m gonna sing you an answer.


Sophia Wise One  1:14:25

It’s simple.


Sophia Wise One  1:14:29

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:14:35

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:14:39

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:14:44

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:14:49

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:14:53

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:14:58

Don’t back down


Sophia Wise One  1:15:03

don’t back down


Sophia Wise One  1:15:08

don’t back down. Don’t back down. Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:15:18

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:15:23

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:15:27

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:15:32

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:15:36

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:15:41

don’t back down.


Sophia Wise One  1:15:46

Don’t back down.



Don’t back down. Don’t back down. Don’t buck down don’t back down. Don’t back down. Don’t back down. Not No, not now. Don’t back down.


Sophia Wise One  1:16:10

Don’t back down.



Don’t back down. Not now. Not now. Don’t back down. No, no, no, no. Don’t back down. No, no, no, no. Going back down. Why did you come in?


Sophia Wise One  1:16:32

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:16:36

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:16:41

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:16:46

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:16:50

Why did you come here?


Sophia Wise One  1:16:55

Why did you come here


Sophia Wise One  1:17:01

Being unshakable to me, is about being able to bring myself back into my body.


Sophia Wise One  1:17:13

Being able to be here,


Sophia Wise One  1:17:15

it’s okay, if I go, it’s okay to come and go. But to be able to know it. And be here.


Sophia Wise One  1:17:24

And then to move here to choose to be here and to move from here. Over and over and over.


Heather Clark  1:17:34

Oh my god, that was beautiful. Absolutely gorgeous. Thank you.


Sophia Wise One  1:17:41

Thank you.


Heather Clark  1:17:46

Just another moment or two it’s too delicious. And then let us know Sophia, where can we find you?


Sophia Wise One  1:17:55

I love to have people come to my website. It’s really it really is a hub of places. Because I have so many. My outpouring comes in many, many forms. And so there’s a lot to explore can kind of find all the pathways there. I’m on all the socials. Like I’m on a lot of them. And I’m @sophiawiseone I hang out the most on Instagram, but I really encourage people to go to my website.


Sophia Wise One  1:18:22

And if you’re feeling connected to me to join my emails, I write my emails, I always think of a particular person. Like the changes, but it’s a particular trusted medicine, like a deep friend of mine. And then I write my newsletters to them, you know, the same way that I would write it. I think I’m like, okay, like dear Rachel, you know, dear whoever, like I want to fill you in on these things.


Sophia Wise One  1:18:50

That’s how I really, you know, I tap into that place of like, What do I have to say, and I want to say it and to my to my beloved’s. So I invite you to come and join, join that space. But you can find my Patreon, which is where I share a lot of my music and my poetry. And, and I have a blog and you can find all my podcasts to the website. So yeah.


Heather Clark  1:19:15



Heather Clark  1:19:16

Thank you and thank you so much. I just so have enjoyed this. It’s been magical.


Sophia Wise One  1:19:23

Thank you so much. You are such a gift and your like focus and presence, your understanding that like being awakened to yourself and then just moving forward with such clarity is really honorable. And it’s a pleasure knowing you and and communing with you. Thank you for having me.


Heather Clark  1:19:46

Thank you so much for listening to Unshakable Being. You’ll find more information in the episode show notes at Subscribe to the podcast and share with your friends. May you be unshakable, unstoppable, and vibrant again. Until next time.