Embodying Self-Care and Energy Work with Jill Leigh

How could you evolve and grow if you were embodying self-care and energy work? Join founder & director Jill Leigh and I as we explore how embodying self-care and energy work can not only keep you present but also accelerate your evolution.

In this episode we explore:

  • How if you aren’t embodying the work…there is no real self-care
  • Shifting out of doing “extra” work
  • Working with the energy body
  • Somatized emotion
  • Working with difficult emotions using the energy body

Featured Guest

Jill Leigh

Founder & Director

Jill is the founder and director of the Energy Healing Institute, an online and classroom-based school that caters to the consciously curious as well as new and seasoned integrative practitioners, who share an interest in energy healing as part of a holistic approach to self-awareness and evolution.

Jill’s breadth of expertise with energy, clairvoyance, conscious channeling and the planes of consciousness deeply connect her to students seeking to broaden their perspective, evolve their awareness and integrate energy healing into their personal life and their client practices.


The Present of Presence – free, live, online, 1-hour class with actionable skills for showing up in full presence and awareness. https://energyhealinginstitute.org/course/present-presence-get-stay-body/

CLEAR: Energy clearing & Self-care: self-paced, online, multi-media course offering 13 skills for clearing the chakras and aura to let go of emotional patterns, shift relationships, elevate beliefs and evolve behaviors. https://energyhealinginstitute.org/course/clear-course/

episode transcription

Heather Clark  00:01

Welcome to Unshakable Being, the podcast with inspiration and practical tools for purpose led leaders like you to relieve stress, build resilience, and unlock vitality in your life, body and business. I am Dr. Heather Clark, and I’ll be your host.


Heather Clark  00:18

Hello, and welcome back to the show. Today we have on Jill Leigh. She is the founder and director of the Energy Healing Institute, an online and classroom based school that caters to the consciously curious as well as new and seasoned integrative practitioners who share an interest in energy healing as part of a holistic approach to self awareness and evolution. Jill, welcome to the show.


Jill Leigh  00:43

Oh, Heather, thank you. It’s so nice to be here.


Heather Clark  00:46

And it’s lovely to have you. Just so the listeners know, we have spent a great deal of time overcoming some tech issues. So if you detect a little residual attitude on my part, it’s just the tech issues. But we’re through them now.


Jill Leigh  01:02

And we only said a few words that were really choice.


Heather Clark  01:06

Yeah, yes. So anyway, it is truly, truly wonderful to have you here.


Jill Leigh  01:13

Thank you.


Heather Clark  01:15

And there’s really so much for us to explore. But I think where I would like to start is hearing more about certainly embodiment because I know you do a lot of work with embodiment. But I want to hear about embodiment, and how self care can really help us with that, or the embodiment of self care, and how that helps us evolve.


Jill Leigh  01:40

Sure, well, you know, I I’ve worked with energy for 30 years now. And one of the reasons I got involved in it in the first place was because of embodiment issues. I had them on on my own, you know, my own bad self, and had to work my way through understanding that until there was embodiment, there really wasn’t a whole lot of self care, that I could I could do yoga, or I could eat well, or I could meditate or pray or do any number of things.


Jill Leigh  02:15

But if I wasn’t embodying that work, that even the food I was eating, then there was no real self care. So for me realizing how many people in fact, over the years, I sometimes laugh and say to people, if I had a nickel for every time someone said they needed to get in their body, I’d retire. I’m still here.


Jill Leigh  02:40

So obviously I haven’t collected enough money at but good Lord, I talk about it all the time. And and when people embody their their lives, then self care becomes something that is part of their life instead of something they’re trying to do to get into their life. That makes sense.


Heather Clark  03:04

Yeah. So it shifts out of that extra thing that you have to do to I don’t know, it’s just what I do. I guess I’ll call it self care.


Jill Leigh  03:11

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And I, I enjoy working with it at the energy level, because energy is, you know, sort of the beginning of the dance. None of us exist without energy. And so when we can work with our energy body as part of our self care practice, then we are, we’re really at the heart of things. And to me, watching people get connected to their energy, and start to realize how powerful a resource their energy is to them, and how deeply it can inform their experience. To me, that’s just really exciting to watch and really exciting to see what unfolds as people work with it.


Heather Clark  04:03

How do you define the energy body?


Jill Leigh  04:06

Oh, well, I define it perhaps in more complex ways than some other folks do. I have studied the the western chakra system since 1991. Most people know about the eastern chakra system, where they the chakras point up towards the sky, they start down at the at the groin area and they come up out the top of the head, and every chakra points up, opens up towards the sky.


Jill Leigh  04:40

In the Western system. The the first chakra the first Root Chakra points down towards the ground, the crown points up to the sky. And the second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth chakras open front and back. And what that allows us to do is be in a More of a Western culture kind of structure with our energy bodies, which allows us to sort of meet our day in and day out experiences in a more rational way.


Jill Leigh  05:12

And that chakra system My dog is having a wonderful chew right at my feet right now with his level of bone, I hope you can hear it because it’s it sounds so you know, crispy, a home, the


Jill Leigh  05:24

the astral body is what I’m talking about with those chakras, the emotional body. And in the system that I worked in, I recognize three bodies I recognize an etheric body, which is the energy system for the physical body, Head, shoulders, knees, and toes,


Jill Leigh  05:40

the astral body is the emotional body, those all that is non tangible. In other words, if I said, here’s my anger, and I tried to hand it off to you, you wouldn’t be able to pick it up, although you could feel it, but you might not be able to hold it in your hands. So it’s, it’s non tangible, non physical.


Jill Leigh  06:00

And then the third body is the mental causal body. And there’s no chakra or aura associated with the with the mental causal body, but it is part of the way that you’re a Heather and I’m a Jill, you have these three bodies that are affiliated with one another and work together to to create the you that is you and the me, that is me. How’s that for simple?


Heather Clark  06:26

I love it. I love it.


Jill Leigh  06:29

You know, it’s interesting, because I used to think that the meridian system was so complex and the chakra system was so simple, because, you know, seven chakras and this aura around you. And once I learned all these bodies that we work with, I realized, Wow, there was as much complexity and granularity going on in the chakra systems with all these bodies as there is with the meridians. And when we learn how to work with those bodies, boy, boy, the world is our oyster, we can do a lot of amazing things.


Heather Clark  07:04

That’s really interesting. Because, you know, as you might imagine, one of the next questions is like, like, what kind of amazing things but really, what do you mean by? So from a tangible perspective? What do you mean by workwith? Because I like I feel like I know, but sometimes it’s really helpful to just be super crystal clear. And then what kinds of things can you do with it.


Jill Leigh  07:27

So a lot of things can be done, let’s, let’s start with the etheric body, I, if if I was a different kind of person, this kind of a back and forth with you where we’re on video, and we’re on mic, and all of that could make me very nervous. I don’t happen to get nervous about this, because I spend two thirds of my life on video.


Jill Leigh  07:51

But back in the day, when I first started with video, I would get nervous, and I got what people call butterflies in their stomach. Right? So is, is that nervousness really in our stomach? Or is that just where we’re picking it up? Well, what’s happening is from an energy perspective, let’s say you’re, you know, you’re gonna go I will I say this, if I had to give a birthday party for seven year olds, my anxiety would be off the charts because I’m not really a great kid person.


Jill Leigh  08:23

But, so I would be a complete wreck about that. And I would be trying to manage that emotion by suppressing it, we try and avoid and tamp down those emotions. And they have nowhere to go when we they leave the astral body, where they go is into the energy system for the etheric body. And so we reflect or say, oh, I’ve got butterflies in my stomach, right? That’s called somatized emotion.


Jill Leigh  08:50

So when you learn how to work with energy, you can take the emotions that you don’t like to feel. And we all have them, whatever they are, and we can move them out of our etheric bodies. Because when you put your emotions down into the energy system of your physical body, all you do is gum up the works.


Jill Leigh  09:10

So and the irony is if you have let’s say, you have a tendency towards bronchitis or you have digestive issues, that symmetrized emotion goes to the lungs, because there’s already a challenge there, where it goes to the digestive system, because there’s already a challenge there. So all it does is make whatever your problems are just a little bit worse.


Jill Leigh  09:36

And so you overlay that over time, and what used to be intermittent digestive issues becomes IBS or some other thing. So learning how to manage the emotions that you end up dumping into your physical body. That’s one example, on the astral side, on the emotional side, and all of us have passed It’s all of us have behaviors, all of us have beliefs, all of us have ways of operating in the world that are less than effective.


Jill Leigh  10:10

You know, maybe you learned as a young kid, I grew up in a house where there was a lot of anger going on. And so I learned at a very young age, that anger was how I did life. And I used to say, in my early 20s, I would make a joke and say, Oh, well, if you know, I have a hangnail, someone should die. And I was just, you know, like, I had a scorched earth policy about everything. So that’s actually one of the Don’t you think, really, because hangnails are bad.


Jill Leigh  10:46

But I used to, I used to think that this was just my life sentence that I was just over reactive and hostile. And I started learning about clearing energy. And I started working on the anger issue, first and foremost, because I started realizing that in all of my relationships, I was the common denominator, right.


Jill Leigh  11:06

And when things were going well, I would mouth off, and then you know, there we would be. So I learned how to clear energy, I set an objective or an intention around resolving this anger issue. So that I could have other resources than just rage to bring to my experiences. So anything that we’ve got going on, that is pad art, that is a way of engaging with the world, but that is not necessarily nuanced or sophisticated, can be up for grabs with energy clearing work. So learning to do that, and one of the things that I’ve also realized about, you know, embodiment, to return to that. If you’re coming into an interaction with someone using emotional responses that you learned 35 years ago, you’re not embodying this moment anyway, right? You’re 35 years ago, and you’re just slamming it onto the person in front of you. So So learning how to address whatever our patterns are, and move through them. And and let them go. gives us the opportunity to find new ways of interacting with people that are much more powerful and much more in the moment and current time.


Jill Leigh  12:37

You’re laughing?


Heather Clark  12:38

I am because that that is a big deal. Yeah. And that’s a big deal that a lot of people don’t realize, perhaps that is an issue for them. Oh, I’ve got this health issue. No, no, let’s focus on this health issue will.





Heather Clark  12:55

And if you’re not going to that deeper level, if you’re not, for lack of a better word, like processing it out, but really addressing, where’s that stock? Where are you because you’re not? If I’ve understood you correctly, if you’re not feeling it, if you’re not expressing it, or if you’re not processing it, you’re bringing it down, and it’s now at some advertised emotion, and it’s going to the area that already has a challenge,





Heather Clark  13:22

Expressing even further. So then I can see how that really contributes to the cycle that a lot of people get caught in. Well, I’ve got this digestive issues. No, no, I don’t need to process my emotions. But now these digestive issues are worse.


Jill Leigh  13:34

Yes. Totally. You know, I have a lot of practitioners, I teach energy healing, as you said in the intro, and I have a lot of practitioners who work with chronic illness, and they end up in my school, because people aren’t healing from their chronic illness, they’ll be able to get them, you know, so far down the road, and then they plateau and there’s no movement beyond that. And they’ll realize, okay, this is an emotional thing. We have to move the needle on whatever the emotional story is, so that the body can let go and evolve. And there is a you know, there is a place where you just kind of get stuck. If If you don’t take on that emotional work. So I always I have so much respect for practitioners who bring they bring their understanding of this to their work, and they really help their clients to heal, because it’s not just about Hawai I ate, you know, wheat last night and therefore I don’t feel well today. That didn’t help. There’s no question. But why did you eat the wheat in the first place? And what were you feeding in your body that could be met and addressed and resolved some other way?


Heather Clark  15:00

I’m so glad you’ve articulated this so clearly, because this is one of the things I mean, when I tell people will I go deep? This is just one of the things like no, no, just tell me what to do here what to eat and what not to like, well, it won’t matter, you’re setting yourself up for problems, you’re not addressing that. And I love the way you put it, these patterned issues. And, and I know that you work with more than just emotions and emotions are crucial to this. And I’m very interested in how the causal body comes with this interplay. The causal mental, mental cause, yeah,


Jill Leigh  15:38

so the mental body, this is a this is a split plane of awareness, and half of the plane is mental and the other half is causal, I’ll start with mental, mental is fascinating to me, because it it’s very tied into not just the concrete intellect, which is part of the mental body, but it’s also tied into the body’s systems. And so all of the well if if we sort of step back a little bit and say, gee, how come Heather, your heart pumps blood in mind as to, and that other person’s in that like our hearts, that’s what they do, they do circulation, right in our in our digestive system processes our food?


Jill Leigh  16:25

Well, the agreements that all of us have, that say the heart circulates blood in the digestive system, processes food and brings energy to the body. All of that is held in place by the mental body. And so it’s something that we all share. And it’s the reason that when little babies come through the birth canal with their 10 fingers and 10 toes, their stomachs are designed for digestion and their hearts are pumping bullet.


Jill Leigh  16:54

So so that’s part of mental body, it’s it’s happens at the cellular level, as well as the system in the process level, like digestion and circulation. Then above that, sort of moving up the scale, is the concrete intellect. So we go from cells to structures and processes to the concrete intellect. And then above there, we go to higher mind, which is, you know, sort of genius level thinking like people like Einstein, and Tesla and those kinds of people.


Jill Leigh  17:28

And that that whole structure of the mental body forms sort of the how we do who we are. Then we move into the causal body. And we’re looking at very esoteric things, we’re looking at things like our our karma, our debits and credits that we’re carrying with us across lifetimes, that karma gets played out as a Jill or a Heather or Frieda or a Joe, but it’s stored, the the debits and credits are stored in the causal awareness. And so as you do really good things, then you increase your credits.


Jill Leigh  18:17

And as you do really bad things, then you increase your debits. And as you pay these things off, all of this stuff gets kept in the causal. So you don’t wake up in the morning and say, which piece of karma Can I burn off today, any more than I do. But if we, you know, if we do some good things, then we burn off some karma. And it all gets sort of managed in the causal.


Jill Leigh  18:42

The other thing that happens up in there is the formation of our belief systems. So in the understanding of energy that I’ve been working with, for all these years, I really understand that our beliefs form the basis of our reality. And it’s why three people can go to a movie, see the exact same movie and come out with three different versions of what they just saw.


Jill Leigh  19:12

Because we all believe, and, and hone in on different things. So the formation of our belief systems happens in the causal. The execution of our belief systems happens in the astral body. So it’s sort of like, and I sometimes I explain this in a free class, I run that I tell a story about being seven years old, and I had a pretty intense mom, and we were walking to a drugstore to get my back to school supplies.


Jill Leigh  19:45

I’m holding our little hand I’m walking along and it’s after Labor Day. And my mother looks at me and says, Jill, do you see that woman coming towards us? Doesn’t she know better than to wear white shoes after Labor Day and I’m just Seven years old, I mean, talk about impressionable luck just like that. I knew that as a bad woman that is a bad bad woman, my mother’s face, I can I can hear her voice right now. She’s, she’s gone. So instantly, I formed this belief system that says if we choose after Labor Day bad person.


Jill Leigh  20:21

And I carried that for years and years and years, I’d walk down the street, someone’s their white shoes, bad person, off we go. I’m in high school. And I realize I don’t care. I mean, this just kind of like means nothing to me.


Jill Leigh  20:36

So that was the end of that belief system. But the belief systems that are really big, and that inform our awareness, including the ones that say, You’re not smart enough or skinny enough for pretty enough for rich enough for whatever, those are all up in the causal, and they download into the astral and then we operate through those belief systems.


Jill Leigh  21:00

So when we learn to work with energy, and we can hang out up in the causal body, we can go to the source of our beliefs, and say, I choose other now. And then that information trickles down into the astral and we start moving in new directions, just really lovely.


Jill Leigh  21:21

So that’s another piece in the causal, there’s, there’s another piece I can talk about, it tends to be controversial. If you’d like me to do it, I will, oh, I would we love compromise do? Well, it has to do with the word soul. And in this system, because I am not arrogant enough to say that my system is right and everybody else’s system is wrong. But in this system, the soul does not penetrate the personality.


Jill Leigh  21:57

So some people will say the soul operates through the heart, some people will say the soul operates, you know, somewhere up here, maybe in the crown chakra area or something in this system, the soul never moves past the causal. So if you can learn to access these different planes of awareness, then you can move up into the causal, and you can navigate and interact with your soul awareness.


Jill Leigh  22:28

And it the the saying that I I learned and love is that the the soul shines, it’s light down through the causal. And so what that implies and what that means, and this is why I have anchored into this, this framework. We’re either sovereign, or we’re not, right. And in this reality, we are sovereign beings, if the soul can come along and say, I think you need to go be an astronaut, or an actor, or whatever.


Jill Leigh  23:08

When people do this all the time, they say, Well, my soul told me I should blah, blah, blah. Are you sovereign, or are you not? And so that’s the reason I so deeply, respect and appreciate the idea of the soul not infiltrating the personality, that, that I get to be jailed, for good for bad and for everything in between.


Jill Leigh  23:41

It’s my choice every minute of every day, what I engage in how I interact, what I choose, but I’m not driven by this concept of soul. In fact, the soul when I learned something, and I grow, and I shift and I say, Oh, that’s it. I don’t need to be angry at everybody anymore. I can use anger appropriately.


Jill Leigh  24:05

Wow, look at that. The soul actually learns from me, I assimilate the experience, it moves up into the causal and the soul says, cool, look what Jael just did. I kind of love that, that I’m informing the soul, and I can access the soul but I am not driven by the soul. So people love to argue with me about that. And we we can do that if you want. It’s just a point of view. I don’t think we know of course I’m right. But you know,


Heather Clark  24:38

I don’t think we need to argue about it. That doesn’t sound like fun. But I think it’s fun to explore that.


Heather Clark  24:44

That is interesting, because I think that’s a perspective that a lot of people have never heard before. I’m just kind of tuning in to so for me I, I also am not so arrogant to think my way is right. everybody else’s wrong. So I, it sounds like we’re very similar in that one, this frame of reference, this is how this works. And in that frame of reference, that’s how it works. And then maybe once right, maybe one isn’t? And probably, it’s not a matter of right and wrong. But so yeah, have you discovered that?


Heather Clark  25:29

Let me back up. So my frame of reference, there is the soul. And it’s a different way of accessing who we really are. And I don’t know about you, but the soul is become a super generic term. And I feel like we don’t have enough words for it. I was just complaining about this the other night, and how perhaps I should learn ancient Greek and dive into it and discover what are the different words, kind of like, there’s a bunch of different words for love that are a lot more descriptive than love.


Heather Clark  25:59

So we’ve got this term that’s rather generic. But when I’m talking about this, what I mean is, it’s a, it’s the quintessence of you, there’s an essence of you and how a person is generally wired and operates in the world. And there are certain structures that don’t appear to change, or they’re so stable over time, it’s as if they don’t change.


Heather Clark  26:22

And then there’s other structures that do so I love this, this idea that the soul learns from you, why not? Why wouldn’t it flow both upstream and downstream. But then there’s how you’re being or your identity, which is, you know, your collection of beliefs, and your habits and your past experiences and your choices and your current reality and all of that. And that’s very mutable, changes a lot depending on who you’re with, what time of day, how you’re showing up.


Heather Clark  26:52

And then in my frame of reference, the further away your identity gets from who you really are, the more stress and tension you experience, like all the stress and tension in life is in that identity gap between them. And the closer it is to who you truly are, if you can close that identity gap, then the ability to get more energy into your life expands. So it’s like it’s a wire, and the smaller the identity gap, the bigger the, the bigger the channel. And that’s actually borne out in my life, and then that of clients.


Heather Clark  27:25

So I’m very curious, as you tune in, if that’s been your experience, as well, because I really like how I’m not going to let my soul boss me around. Just because my soul thinks that I should, you know, sell everything and move to the top of a mountain doesn’t mean I’m going to do that I’m not on the hook for that. So just really interested if you’ve had a similar experience for yourself, or if you’ve got a different perspective on that.


Jill Leigh  27:50

Yeah, I use slightly different words, I kind of like your Quintessence word, because I talk about the personality, the essence, which is like the spirit self, the eternal, right. And the personality is finite, although I mean, born lives dies finite, although obviously very changeable, with time, and experience, and all of those things.


Jill Leigh  28:20

So I talk a lot about autonomy. I talk a lot about authenticity. And so that’s where that that gap would be very, very closed, in that you are being who you truly are. And you’re operating through the truth of that, whatever that means for you. And the, the overlays of things like religious indoctrination, or parental or cultural or societal or gender and all of the other ways that we affiliate that those have been not negated. But perhaps right sized, you know, like, I was raised a Christian Scientist.


Jill Leigh  29:20

And so healing has been in my life my whole life. But I had a whole lot of trouble trying to find God in the church. I found a lot of people in church, and I found a lot of people that weren’t necessarily operating in a godlike way, let’s say then I could go out into nature and I could sit in a tree and see God everywhere right.


Jill Leigh  29:48

So so as I let go of the story of healing needing to be connected to this, God construct and And that you prayed for healing because I never understood, I still don’t know that I understand prayer all that, well, I understand meditation pretty well. But I prayer has always been kind of a challenge for me, I understand who the heck I’m talking to, to be honest with him.


Jill Leigh  30:18

But when I move within myself, and I meditate, and I connect to the cosmos, which I know lots of people would say, is God, and that’s fine with me, I don’t, I don’t need to fight that battle, or it isn’t a battle. Then, then I feel like I’m closing that gap. I’m being who I am. So I agree with you. I think the the, the piece of sovereignty for me is about recognizing that I am, I am the boss of me, I am in charge of me. I am responsible for me, I am responsible for everything that I create and generate my thoughts, my actions, everything belongs to me.


Jill Leigh  31:08

And if I can do that, from a place where I am grounded in myself, and my understanding and my beliefs and what I you know how I choose to be in the world, then I’m right there. I am right there. So I think we have more on the same page than not.


Heather Clark  31:33

Yeah, I think so. And this is really interesting. I, I love discussing things like this with people who are willing to actually discuss it. Instead of just No, no, it’s like this, like, Oh, yeah, we’re interactions done. And as you’re sharing what I got really clear on so thank you for this as it’s not just like, I’m sovereign. Got that. But I also had a sense that I’m not only sovereign, I’m the steward of all the different elements of Heather. Yes, as well. Yes. And I just really, really find that so delicious. Yes, there’s a lot there, like, okay. It’s not, I’m not just running the show. I’m nurturing the show. Yeah, I really like that. I really appreciate that. You know,


Jill Leigh  32:22

there’s a wonderful quote, and I’m gonna paraphrase it because I could go look it up. But we don’t have that kind of time. I, you know, years ago, I started reading the Seth material, Jane Roberts, and Seth. And that stuff has totally informed my understanding of everything. And in one of the one of the books, I think it was in nature, personal reality.


Jill Leigh  32:47

Seth was talking about how you’re both creator and creation. And that when you try to step back from the handiwork of whoever you are, it’s really impossible to sort out the creator from its creation. And I always love that because there’s just this way in which it just brings you right down to this little pinpoint of authority and power, and responsibility and generation and activation. It’s like, Oh, my gosh, I am creator and creation. And you can’t separate one from the other. And I love that so much. Just makes me so


Heather Clark  33:38

too. That’s fantastic.


Jill Leigh  33:41

Yeah. Oh, I wish I had the quote on the tip of my tongue because it’s just because I don’t know. Have you read any of the stuff material?


Heather Clark  33:49

No, I I find it hard to enjoy channeled materials. I haven’t tried that one. But I’ve tried a couple others I’d like yeah, this isn’t this isn’t from Yeah,


Jill Leigh  33:57

I get it. And the Seth books are incredibly annoying, because the women are laid out. Robert butts, this Jane’s husband, and he dictated, you know, he transcribed and everything that she said, and so some brilliant, shining piece of information will come out and then it’ll say, and Jane crossed her legs lit a cigarette, and we took a seven minute break. And then you go into the next thing.


Jill Leigh  34:30

Jane returned to the room, lit another cigarette, had a sip of her red wine, and then blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, but there’s but in between all those segues. There’s some really brilliant material but you have to work so hard to read it. And I just keep reading this stuff because it just keeps unfolding and unfolding. I’m with you on most channeled things I really, but other stuff material. I don’t know. It just speaks to me.


Heather Clark  35:00

I love it. I may try that one. Like I said, I hadn’t tried that one in particular. I tried others. I was like, yeah, peace out. This isn’t. This is just, I’m just upset now.


Jill Leigh  35:14

Well, some of its pretty crazy pants. I gotta say, you know, and I, I’m not really. When I first started on this whole thing back in 1991 I, you know, I sort of blew right into the new age, spirituality movement. And I blew right out the other side, because I was like, okay, there’s all a lot of crazy going on here. And this gals got her feet on the ground. So ixnay not happening, you know?


Jill Leigh  35:42

Yeah. And so I, you know, I’ve met, I moved through that phase in probably six months. And now everything for me is about it’s got to be grounded. It’s got to be in the world. It’s got to be practical. It’s got to be actionable. I and I really like to think about the work that I do being sort of at the intersection of science and spirituality, is that allows it to come down to earth kind of important.


Heather Clark  36:10

Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s, that’s why I adore you so much, just because we are completely on the same page with that. Yeah. And another thing I was just talking about the other day, it’s, it’s almost as if new language is required to speak of some of these things.


Heather Clark  36:27

Because at least my own personal experience. I don’t want to come across as denigrating the new age, but there’s been a lot of contact I’ve had with new agey type materials, where it’s just like, what, what are you on? Like this? Or, why are we doing this? And you’ve decided this is the quote, right way of doing this, and you’ve offered no evidence of why and like, it’s it’s the experience of being very ungrounded. Yeah, of there being lots of attempted a cult of personality like, and fraught, it’s at least fraught.


Jill Leigh  37:02

It’s totally fraught.


Heather Clark  37:03

So then I hear myself saying things, because it’s the language that I have. But then it sounds so woowoo I’m like, I just never mind.


Jill Leigh  37:12

I know. Like,


Heather Clark  37:13

let me see what I actually mean. No, I don’t I there’s not, I don’t have the language for it. There’s it’s not sliced finely enough, that I can navigate through all the nuance where, you know, otherwise, it just comes out, you know, just believe like, oh, help us. All right.


Jill Leigh  37:30

I know, try, try running this business for the last 30 years. Because you know, the whole language thing, I do so much work to ground, what is said on my website, and so forth, because there’s all this, you know, wishy washy stuff that’s up here. And it makes no sense, not to me anyway.


Jill Leigh  37:52

And those, those people aren’t going to actually really dive in deeply to my work. It’s that that’s not where they’re, that’s not where their consciousness is residing. And I don’t want to judge that. I just know that the people who are attracted to my work are always attracted to having their feet on the ground, and being in this reality, and trying to find the ways to connect into both spirit and self and the earth so that they can sort of actualize their lives. That makes sense to me. I can get behind that.


Heather Clark  38:38

I love that. Yeah, that’s, that’s maitrise like, this is great. But what are we going to do with this? right? Exactly. This has been a great exercise. And now what


Jill Leigh  38:49

exactly right, exactly right.


Heather Clark  38:52

So you’ve been doing this a while. What’s your origin story? How did you get this well doing this?


Jill Leigh  38:57

Who, I when I moved, I moved to Maine in 1991. And I had I was in my second marriage, I was 32 I guess when I moved to Maine, maybe around there. And and I and I kind of realized that GE has been number one and husband number two, they were like polar opposites. And neither of them worked out. So maybe the common denominator might have been me.


Jill Leigh  39:33

So I had gotten into therapy to say, okay, you know, obviously, I have issues. Let’s figure them out. I knew there was the anger thing that I mentioned earlier. But what I didn’t realize was how, how confused I had become about what spirituality was all About for me, because I had left Christian Science earlier in my 20s. And I didn’t really have anything to close that gap.


Jill Leigh  40:11

And I didn’t even know there was one for the longest time. And then when I moved to Maine with my son, I started having all of these really weird experiences on the land, seeing spirits, having moving objects, crossing the room and shattering at my feet, that just stuff, right and I thought, okay, somebody’s got a problem. And I didn’t really realize that I was really dysregulated with my own energy, and I was essentially creating these experiences from my dysregulation.


Jill Leigh  40:53

And so a friend of mine, I, then well, then I came down with a really nice autoimmune, and I had chronic fatigue syndrome. And I would literally, wake up in the morning, go downstairs, take a two hour nap on the couch after my two cups of coffee, then get up. And as my, my husband at the time said, that was my third. G, you really shine between 11am and 2pm. And that would be sort of my three good hours of the day, and then I would be on the slide down.


Jill Leigh  41:28

And so a friend of mine said, I think you have an energy problem, which I thought was the stupidest thing I ever heard, because it was fairly obvious that if I could only function three hours a day, I had an energy problem. And she said, No, I think I mean, I’m talking about your, your energy bodies. And I was like, What in God’s name. So she poured me on a plane and I started studying this, the chakra system, started learning the clearing skills started learning to work with my energy. And guess what, no more autoimmune.


Jill Leigh  42:02

Like everything that was going on in my body was a result of all of this other stuff in my astral body and my ethiopic body. So I got that cleaned up. And then I just there was no turning back. It was like, Oh my gosh, like it felt like the keys to the kingdom for me. So I started teaching, I started working with clients, and 30 years later, here I am, I was still in corporate at the time back in, in 91.


Jill Leigh  42:33

I didn’t leave corporate america till 2002. And then I’ve been doing this full time since 2002. So but it was just, you know, it was like, between the Seth material, learning the chakra system, learning about the different bodies, and learning how to work with those energy bodies. And then having the business experience that I’d had for all of those years. It was like, wow, this is really I really have something important that I want to bring out into the world. And so that’s that’s my story.


Heather Clark  43:11

That’s fantastic. I love that. Especially love though. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.


Jill Leigh  43:21

She is stupid if she doesn’t think I know. I haven’t energy Pro.


Heather Clark  43:26

I love that she was able to articulate it in a way that made sense. It sounds like your logical mind was like, Oh, yeah. Okay, I’ll let all the rest of this information in. And here we go.


Jill Leigh  43:36

Yeah. And it really was amazing how fast once I started learning some of the practices. It was amazing how fast things turned around for me. Because I was on I was taking 75 supplements a day. I was on vitamin IV therapy. I was on a special diet. And then I’d have more sensitivity and more this and more that and then I started working with my energy and I was like, forget the supplements.


Jill Leigh  44:04

I was off of 90% of those in about a month. I was back in my body. I was really active again kayaking, hiking, gardening. It just all turned around so quickly. And it was like Yeah, okay, so energy is root cause if you get to the heart of it with your energy, you can really move through some stuff and trauma was part of it. It wasn’t just, you know, I had an anger problem. I had trauma that had to heal. And it was in my body it was in my emotions. It was in my belief systems. I worked it all out with energy is amazing. Even got out of therapy.


Heather Clark  44:48

Yes. And I wonder if you’ve noticed this. What I’ve noticed with clients is a lot of times, supplements or even sometimes medications provide excellent physical support. Yes, to get you in a position to where it’s easier to do the energy work and to do that deeper work. Yes. And then just, you know, taper off in a safe and sensible manner. Absolutely. I


Jill Leigh  45:11

your life. Yeah, I am one of those people who believe and I take supplements now I am not anti supplement. I’m not anti doctor, I’m not anti medicine, you know, I there’s a time and a place for everything. And, and we don’t have the kind of food and even water that supports our bodies at the level that we need them.


Jill Leigh  45:33

We need minerals, there are things we need. So absolutely. And and I think when we treat our bodies as holistic organisms, rather than as we started this conversation, trying to solve physical problems without addressing addressing the whole self, we we end up creating perhaps additional problems because things don’t seem to work, right. This medication isn’t working, I need something else.


Heather Clark  46:07



Jill Leigh  46:09

Or maybe there’s something else going on that needs needs to be looked at.


Heather Clark  46:15

And there’s a lot of power in that maybe really opens the door for what could be that. Yeah. And it could be something else. And for those that are willing to entertain that they tend to get at least in my experience, much better response than No, I just need a stronger dose and I need this I need like, okay, Yep. Yep. Do you find that it’s better to allow people to come to their own epiphany? Or is there some way that you have that you’d like to help initiate an epiphany that perhaps it’s a little more than just the, quote, surface stuff, it is a deeper energy issue at the root.


Jill Leigh  46:51

Sometimes, I think I do a combination of both. I do have a sort of gentle socket between the eyes thing that I will do if someone is really invested in and stuck in a pattern. And some of my my students will laugh if they, if they listen to this, because they know this race, um, how is that working for you? So that’s one of my, one of my ways of saying, Yeah,


Jill Leigh  47:30

not buying what you’re selling.


Jill Leigh  47:32

And the other one I really like is a single word where I just say, or to just, you know, open up possibility. But I find that a lot of what I do these days, is I spend a lot of time with practitioners. And what I’m working with them on is like unpacking their cases, and unpacking. And I say this to practitioners all the time, don’t read 1000, chakra books, all that’s gonna do is confuse you because there’s lots of different chakra systems, and you have to anchor into one.


Jill Leigh  48:16

But where you should be reading, you should be at the Self Help section of the library or the bookstore, where you’re reading about what makes people tick, why they do what they do, because we all have our stuff. And yet, at the end of the day, we can bucket stuff, anxiety, right? depression, anger issues, you know, relationship issues, when there’s sort of I there’s a finite number of buckets, there’s an infinite number of stories that fit in the buckets.


Jill Leigh  48:56

And so if you can learn the buckets, then you can also learn the energy patterns that are behind those buckets, what chakras are enrolled in this what is the aura doing, what patterns are lighting up? And, and so that’s the work that I spent a lot of time on these days. It’s like shining the flashlight in the buckets and saying, Where does this one go? What do you think this one is?


Jill Leigh  49:24

So when I can help practitioners do that, it’s like one of the joys of my life, because they become more and more facile at separating from the story they’re hearing to understand, okay, this is the framework that I can use to help this person move beyond this story. And the story is not going to disappear. But if we can take the charge out of the story, then new options open up and emerge. So that’s how I I do a lot of that


Heather Clark  50:02

And that’s kind of the fun part when you can feel the the charge drop off and like okay, now the doors open. Yes, here we go. Finally let go of all that. But wait, this is my problem like, so enjoy it then but I don’t enjoy it. Okay. Now what what else would you like to do? How


Heather Clark  50:21

else would you prefer to handle this? Oh, okay.


Jill Leigh  50:24

Go have a great. Exactly. Yeah.


Heather Clark  50:33

So with this, it sounds like for years now you’ve worked with mostly practitioners instead of the frontline clients? Is that done?


Jill Leigh  50:40

Both? No, I haven’t done very big client practice until 2013. And then I started scaling it back. And now I do I have, I always have to keep my hand in the work, or I don’t feel like I can teach it. So I have a pretty small clientele. And I work on a lot of really complex client cases. Now. I’m not as interested in you know, I’ll see you for a month and then you’re all set kind of cases at this point. So I refer those to my practitioners and, and then work with pretty complex cases.


Heather Clark  51:24

I really appreciate that, that you’re still keeping a hand in it, because it does make a difference. Oh, yeah. You know, because there’s trends, not just in how people are operating. But the types of problems, it seems like they come in clusters, and there’s


Jill Leigh  51:42

different sorts of problems at different sorts of times. So it does have really support other practitioners when you’ve had your hand in it. Do you notice too, how if I remember when I was before I moved out to the west coast in 2013, I was separated from my husband, and I was living all over the place.


Jill Leigh  52:04

And so I would only took about three days ahead, because it was just too confusing otherwise. So I was on my way into Boston where my office was, and I got into the office and I flipped open my calendar for the day. And I looked at the eighth, nine clients or whatever I had that day.


Jill Leigh  52:22

And the first client came in and started talking about separating from her partner. And then the second one came in and said that her husband had asked for a divorce. And then the third one came in and said, I don’t know if I can take this anymore. And then right through the day, everyone but one client was in so you know, wherever you are, there it is. Right?


Jill Leigh  52:45

You bring it right into your practice. And I I I have loved that. And I have hate it to be honest with you. Because there are times when I think I don’t want to look at myself anymore today. Thank you so much. But on the other hand, boy, are you contextual, when you really understand that your practice and you are the same thing. And you’re just gonna vibrate people into your life that are working on the issues you’re working on, because they’re simpatico, so it can be a tough one to deal with.


Jill Leigh  53:17

But on the other hand, it’s pretty powerful when you really realize I am bringing these people to me because this is the work I’m in right now.


Heather Clark  53:27

Absolutely. And what I’ve noticed is that helps me move fast through it a lot faster. Because whatever answer the drops in intuitively for the person right in front of me, it comes out on my mouth. I’m like, Oh, that’s great information. Heather, why don’t you also make a note of that. So yeah, it’s like, well, would you if you don’t want to fast track your development. Don’t get a business. Don’t be a healer. Right? If you don’t mind. Here you go. Yeah,


Jill Leigh  53:56

I always say you have to be just one step ahead of your fastest growing client. It’s great to just see yourself running running. Oh boy, she’s really fast. I gotta go.


Heather Clark  54:14

No, that’s too much work. What I prefer is the metaphor of I just release my attachment to it. No, let the universe move me in front however far in front they want me to be not and that’s not like me giving up. Oh, whatever you want. It’s more like no, I prefer it the easy way. Make that go.


Jill Leigh  54:32

Like it? Yeah.


Heather Clark  54:35

Oh, this is so glorious. And


Jill Leigh  54:38

where can people find you? Who can find me right after I bang on the tabletop. My website is energy healing institute.org and they can find me there. I have free classes. I have lots of content. I have courses for interested learners as well. Well it’s practitioner programs. So if you want to know about energy and you want to know about energy where your feet around the ground, matted beam


Heather Clark  55:10

Love it. Love it. Thank you. You’re such a delight to have you on. It’s fantastic.


Jill Leigh  55:17

Well thank you Heather. It’s been a delight to be with you to enjoy this immensely.


Heather Clark  55:24

Thanks so much for listening. I’d love to hear from you. Go to unshakablebeing.com and submit your question, comment, or topic request. May you be unshakable, unstoppable, and vibrant again. Until next time.