Connect to Peace and Fulfillment with Nat Couropmitree

What if you could experience peace, fulfillment, and Bold Aliveness–no matter your circumstances? Join spiritual mentor Nat Couropmitree and I as we explore how to connect to peace, Bold Aliveness, Unconditional Receiving, fulfillment no matter what, and how life is expressing through us (versus needing to “make it happen”).

In this episode you’ll discover:

  • How to connect with peace
  • How to respond, not react
  • Tools to deal with difficult people
  • Using allowing and receiving to move through pain
  • Gaining fulfillment and peace…no matter the circumstances

Featured Guest

Nat Couropmitree

Spiritual Mentor

Nat supports soul-inspired entrepreneurs to discover and embrace their unique path of freedom, aliveness and significance. He is a Quantum Play Facilitator and the creator of the Bold Aliveness Model. Beyond his life’s work, Nat enjoys traveling and dancing the Argentine Tango with his beloved wife, Olga.


Receiving Quiz:

episode transcription

Heather Clark  00:01

Welcome to Unshakable Being, the podcast with inspiration and practical tools for purpose led leaders like you to relieve stress, build resilience, and unlock vitality in your life, body and business. I am Dr. Heather Clark, and I’ll be your host.


Heather Clark  00:18

Hello, and welcome back to the show. Today we have Nat Couropmitree. I love this guy. For real, we talked a little bit beforehand, and he was joking how I could just basically extol his virtues. That’s totally what I’m gonna do. He helps soul inspired entrepreneurs really unlock their significance and step into their bold, aliveness. He is wonderful. He talks about unconditional receiving. He’s got a successful coaching practice, he does a lot of really other wonderful things. Nat, welcome to the show.


Nat Couropmitree  00:54

Oh, Heather, thank you so much. It’s I was really looking forward today what you said about me, it was so perfect. It’s like even better than what I sent you. Oh my god, this is


Nat Couropmitree  01:12

I love it, just the way that you take information and, and I don’t know, it’s like it goes through a processor and comes out even better.


Heather Clark  01:24

I’ll receive that, thank you. Note, for real, I, I’m so excited for people to get a chance to really get to know you. Because not only is your work amazing, but the way you are in the world is amazing. And I like when you show up as you that puts other people at ease and really opens up possibilities. And it just I think it makes other people easier for them to be themselves so I just really it’s one of the things I really appreciate about you.


Nat Couropmitree  01:55

Oh, thank you so much. That means so much.


Heather Clark  01:59

And we did just for the listeners we did chat before the show like what would we like to cover today? And I find there’s so much I want to know about it’s tough to know where to start. So let’s start with this let’s start with: Nat, what are you finding for yourself and your clients that truly helps connect people with peace?


Nat Couropmitree  02:28

what I just did there that deep breath is one way to really connect to peace to really connect to the moment connect to the mind body think that’s been a big practice for me lately is to get out of my head and not have the thinking and remember that like right now right here? I’m really okay.


Nat Couropmitree  02:58

And that that’s maybe one level and then another level is to just recognize that you know who or what I am this you know presence awareness consciousness is it’s like part of the world but not of it. It’s not the right phrasing saying I’m not sure I’m not great with sayings. But it’s this thing that like knowing that I’m this eternal thing that’s unchanging to what is happening in the world and that I can just kind of rest back into it gives me this incredible sense of peace and I’m I’m aware that my mind and the conditioning you know from everyone else and even what I’ve made up all of that can take me out of the moment into like future or past and that’s when I get nervous or anxious or stressed out. So if I can catch that and come back to okay right here right now. Yeah, here I feel just amazing.


Heather Clark  04:28

How do you address this for people who say things like right here right now is all kinds of not amazing? Like what do you do to help people that either have trouble staying in the right here right now? Or find a lack a desire to be in the right here right now?


Nat Couropmitree  04:48



Nat Couropmitree  04:54

What what has worked for me is vocalizing like Sing sing out loud, what is actually present? Like, like for me right now, or this week, I’ve had some health stuff. And I’ve had some chronic pain. And there are times when my wife makes me laugh, or I’m watching a video and I’m, like, in that moment of where I’m laughing, it’s it. It’s however long that is, is this moment of not being in the pain. Even though the pain is still present in the body, I’m not aware of it. Because I’m now focused on the laughing and how, you know, smiling or whatever that makes me feel.


Nat Couropmitree  05:53

So when I can acknowledge that, yeah, okay, right now, my body is feeling pain or discomfort, or right now, how I see my life, I might judge as not okay. I can’t acknowledge it. And in the process of acknowledging everything, I realized that that’s kind of like outside of me, it’s like these things that I’m naming. There’s this other thing, me presence, that is aware of it all. And so as I’m naming all of it, I actually deepen into presence. And I deepen into that place of peace. And I would say, it’s definitely a process, a practice.


Nat Couropmitree  06:52

When I first started naming things, in, in relationship with other people, it was uncomfortable, because my mind thought, like, Oh, this is gonna be bad. Right? That because that’s a condition thing like this, this is something that happened before, like, when I speak up, people won’t understand me, or they won’t like what I’m going to say, or they’ll judge me. So it’s better that I don’t speak up. But then not. It’s like, feels like you’re caged. And is that caged feeling is actually what makes you feel unsatisfied or unfulfilled with life. It’s not actually, the thing that we think it is with, you know, what we think it is, is that I don’t feel fulfilled, because I don’t have X, Y, and Z in my life. And it’s not that at all, is that you’re not allowing yourself to be fully expressed. Because you have all these, these walls and filters that you think you have to keep in place to feel safe, loved and valued.


Heather Clark  08:04

So the fulfillment has nothing to do with the circumstances we think will bring the fulfillment. Yeah, it is really about being fully expressed. So share with us more about what does that mean? What does that look like? How would you discern, oh, I’m fully expressed, or I’m not or what what are some of the markers and how can people step into it?


Nat Couropmitree  08:29

I say fully expressed. So essentially, fully expressed, means that you’re you feel more capable.


Nat Couropmitree  08:46

And that’s the right word. You feel more Okay. We’ll use that word. You feel more okay about doing the things or saying the things that are coming up for you in the moment? Yeah. If you if something’s coming up for you to say, but that you hold back, that’s not fully expressed. That’s your you’re containing yourself and you’re you’re judging that, like what I’m going to say is not allowed.


Heather Clark  09:28

So it steps away from the self censorship, and really steps into responding to your inner motivations.


Heather Clark  09:36

Mm hmm.


Nat Couropmitree  09:38

Yeah. And it’s, um, I think the the distinction that needs to be made is that it’s I feel like it needs to be made but I’m not sure of like what is emerging from you. from a place of presence versus what is coming up from you from a place of ego. And I’m not sure if I can explain that right now.


Heather Clark  10:13

You could see where this was going go on.


Heather Clark  10:21

Well, I, so in my life, and apparently in the lives of many of my clients, they’re responding from presence, responding for what from what’s aligned, feels different than responding from ego. Like, often it is a different physical sensation. Or there’s a different vibe about it. Or with, with some practice, there’s the development of an awareness of that doesn’t quite sound like something that I want to be showing up in the world as and then like, Okay, let me I’m going to take a moment now and really process, what do I really mean here? So perhaps it’s something like that, but responding to the internal messages without necessarily acting on everything that flows through your brain?


Nat Couropmitree  11:09

Sure. Again, it is definitely a fine tuning. Because sometimes, how we think, to use what one of your sound bosses, how we think we want to show up in the world can still come up come from a place of ego, right? Like depends on what you value. I feel like I’m getting into like deep territory here that. So I would say, initially, what came up is ego motivation is like, how can I show up in the world so that people will like me, or they value me? How can I show them that I’m, like, really great and good.


Nat Couropmitree  11:57

And so then, you know, they’ll shower their blessings on me like, it is more of this like outward projection of like, how can I look and be, so that people get me and like me, and blah, blah, blah. So it’s like, instead of sourcing your own value, peace, security, all of that, you’re relying on circumstances and other people. And from presence is like, oh, everything that I really want and need is right here.


Nat Couropmitree  12:38

And the ego is gonna fight that like, no, it’s not right here. It’s like, you don’t have anything. And so it’s that practice of like, going back, coming back to self finding, connecting to that peace, or that wisdom or the joy that’s like here right now. And then from there, from that space of joy, or wisdom or peace or even anger, like what are you moved? What do you move to do? What are you what it may be nothing, but like, what is what is coming up now in the moment, that’s, that’s moving, you’re inspiring you.


Heather Clark  13:30

I enjoy that so much. Because it’s the movement from within the inspiration is a very different vibe, from the ego, the movement, the inspiration, that presence, because some of the things I heard you say about ego, it’s often in order to it’s often about circumstances or people so that you can feel safe and loved instead of sourcing it from the inside. I’m safe. I’m, I’m loved. That’s fine. And some of these outside things are nice, too. But they’re not required.


Nat Couropmitree  14:03

Yeah, that’s a great point. It’s like once you know that you’re the source of the love value, security, wealth, abundance, once you know that it originates from you. Then you can still engage in life and have partnerships and friendships. And those get elevated because they can because you’re no longer in a relationship to try to get from them. Right. It’s like you’re you can be two sovereign individuals that know that like, yeah, I’m sourcing my own life and I appreciate your companionship.


Heather Clark  14:59

I like you because I like you, not because of what maybe you could do for me or what you bring or what you represent or anything. I just just because I do, it’s, I can feel that there’s a lot more freedom around that. And it’s a much more elegant place, because I know, that’s how I prefer to relate to people. And that is most assuredly how I prefer people to relate to me.


Nat Couropmitree  15:22



Heather Clark  15:24

Be here because you want to be here not because you think that I can do something for you.


Nat Couropmitree  15:29

Yeah. What also is coming up for me right now is the question I get a lot is like, Well, how do you deal with difficult people? and


Heather Clark  15:42

define difficult people?


Nat Couropmitree  15:45

Well, and that’s a personal thing, right? Because what I might find challenging in a person might not trigger you at all. And vice versa. Right. So it is definitely a self defined, ego defined. thing.


Heather Clark  16:15

The reason why I asked is because I’m really glad you eliminated that, yeah, it really depends on what’s happening and what the challenge is because at least in my opinion, I want to hear more about what you have to say about this and all of that, but in my opinion, it has to do with a difficult person is often an excellent teacher, there’s no need for us to make them a villain, there’s a teacher. And a lot of times people receive the label of that’s a difficult person, it’s because that person is not putting up with Bs, you know, difficult person, because they’re putting themselves first and it’s inconvenience to other people. That’s not actually difficult in my book, but I know other people relate to them like that. So. So that’s why it’s like,


Nat Couropmitree  17:03

this is great. So much I want to share about this right now. Because it’s, it’s related to, also this comfort that we might feel in our lives or in our bodies. Because when you cultivate this, being present, being you being this presence, it’s like, you know, that you’re fine, regardless of what the circumstances are. Right? And, and in kind of cultivating that love or compassion for yourself, for the for kind of like your human condition, right? Then you expand your capacity for everyone else in the world, or there’s the possibility for that, right?


Nat Couropmitree  18:07

Like, it doesn’t mean that you agree with everything they do, or think. But you, you recognize that they’re on their path. You have compassion for where they are, however conscious or unconscious, they are, you can still take action in ways that you are moved to take action, but you don’t need to look at when you can also cut them from your life if if they’re not of value, right?


Nat Couropmitree  18:43

But, but even though you might cut them out of your life, or just not give them attention, you can still have love and compassion for who they are. Right? And so that circles back to your own life. Right, where you may not like, you may not prefer the condition of your life and then you have to look at that still have like who’s deciding that your life is not good, like by whose standards are they yours or, you know, standards that have been passed down to you that you’ve adopted. I mean, that is something that you really need to connect to for yourself.


Nat Couropmitree  19:32

But whatever it is, you can have compassion for the for you the human, that this is where you are in life. And still you can draw back and be in that place of peace and joy even. And then in terms of like physical pain, which like right now I am feeling physical pain in my body and in connection with you, Heather And whomever may be listening to this in the future, maybe in the future, it might not be they still experiencing the pain, but it’s like, I’m not suppressing the pain. I’m not containing it, I’m letting it be present. I’m allowing it acknowledging at and can feel a deeper sense of peace.


Heather Clark  20:31

Are you finding that the allowing of the pain and acknowledging it is impacting the process for you of moving through pain? Because probably you’ve been in pain before. It’s had a particular feeling it’s had a particular process, do you have a sense that it’s impacting the process?


Nat Couropmitree  20:51

I do. In times when I feel like sometimes a kid consciousness comes up in me. And because I, through a lot of my life, I was sick, terribly, terribly sick. And I would kind of feel powerless to make changes. And if I fall back into the kid in me of like, like, Woe is me, I can’t do anything. I’m like, you know, pity party for myself, then the pain becomes worse. And I don’t want to do anything. So it’s like, because I allow it, and I’m being with it. You know, the pain? I would like the pain to dissipate. But if it doesn’t, I’m also okay with it.


Heather Clark  21:48

Yeah, there’s a lot of freedom around that. The reason why I ask is because I’m sure you’ve heard this before, where I heard this a long time ago, and I was like, I’m gonna use this frame. And it can be helpful. Because I had in the past, related to pain, like, Oh, my God, this is awful. And it needs to stop. But the new perspective of this is an interesting sensation.


Heather Clark  22:10

And I’m not suggesting, well, if you just adopt that, everything’s fine, I am suggesting that it can shift the perception. And at least for me, it makes what you’re talking about much easier to do being fully present with it without necessarily laying letting it overwhelm you. And you’re talking about physical pain.


Heather Clark  22:30

And I have used this recently and on an ongoing basis for the pain of grief. And what I have noticed, is because I have been very willing, and have had more capacity to just allow it, to be there to allow it to be fully present, allow it to be as intense as possible. And if I break down and cry in front of people, I just cry. And when I’m done, I pick up where I left off and move along with what we’re doing. And not like and now my grief journey is complete.


Heather Clark  23:03

No, that’s not how it works. However, what I will say is, there’s been more I don’t know if this is the right word, but more smoothness to this stage of grief than in one’s in the past. It’s not necessarily processing quicker, but I’m feeling fewer things that are stuck. And I just really think that’s curious because it sounds very similar to what you’re sharing about physical pain as well. Just allowing it to be present.


Nat Couropmitree  23:36



Heather Clark  23:40

And, and it doesn’t sound like you’re a so that I can push through it. kind of guy. It’s more like I’m allowing it to be present. Because it’s present.


Nat Couropmitree  23:50

Yeah. Yeah, I’m not a push through it type of guy. I’ve never been well, that’s not true. I probably have. I can be I can like for instance, make work more important than my own well being so yeah, I, I can push through it.


Nat Couropmitree  24:18

And in this past week, there are days where it’s my normal flow, and I’m just kind of aware of it and taking care of it. And then there are other days where is less active, less full. And all I can do is just be present with the pain. And I do find that the times when I’m present to it, but at the same time, kind of ignoring it. It doesn’t help me I feel more distracted. It’s like I’m trying to I’m trying trying to numb or distract myself from by doing something, but it’s never a productive day.


Nat Couropmitree  25:08

So it’s easier to just be with it in whatever capacity for however long I need to. And then when I feel moved to like, Oh, I’m gonna go do this thing, then I can and I’ll focus for that thing. And then I’ll come back and do something else. So it’s, it’s a moment by moment thing. It is still a newer territory for me. So I mean, I don’t have an answer solution, per se. But if I think about, I’ve never really been the type of person to sit, say, like, this is the way that you do things. I’ve always just kind of like, this is how I do things. And if, if it works for you, then try it on.


Heather Clark  25:56

Well, and presence is a moment by moment thing. And there really isn’t a good template for presence. except perhaps, be present. Increase your awareness, like tuned in to what is good, bad, ugly. Just allow it. So yeah, the moment to moment.


Nat Couropmitree  26:18

Yeah. Something that I’m thinking about now is different, like spiritual teachers like Mooji, or Adi, Shanti. Or, or even Eckhart Tolle. They always talk about how you’re not meditating. That like, you just open up to this space that is already there. Right? So this is very similar, where the practice of presence is just opening up to what is already here, rather than like you like, Oh, I gotta go sit in the corner. And not that that’s bad, either. But, but it’s like, you’re not really the one meditating. It’s already you’re just opening up to something that’s already here.


Heather Clark  27:09

Yeah, it’s, it’s. So it’s not like, Oh, I have to go on this journey to be present. Or I have to do all I have to prep nothing like that. It’s like, no, it’s already here. And it’s simply tuning into it. It’s simply opening up to it. It’s, it’s really allowing it.


Nat Couropmitree  27:27

Yeah, you spoke earlier about the joy of my family photos, and my grandson. And like, we experience moments of presence all the time. Right? When we’re, when we’re appreciating the beauty of our kids. Kids playing I mean, their kids are such wonderful examples of presence. One moment, they’re, they’re laughing and smiling, and literally the next second, they’re fussy, and, you know, angry and then crying and then back to happy. Like, they’re so in the moment, right?


Nat Couropmitree  28:09

But, but as culturally insists, and societal Lee, we’re taught like, no, that’s not allowed, like, No, you can only be happy. You can you can’t be you can’t be angry. You can’t be sad. No, because that’s, I can’t handle that. So you can’t do that. Right. So that’s a little bit of a separate topic, but but appreciating the beauty of a flower, a tree, the sun, a sunset, those are all moments of presence that we access all the time, what would it be like? So that that was more of a constant presence in your life? Y


Nat Couropmitree  28:55

ou know, like, I was thinking recently of singing about my grandson. I mean, he’s just like, he opens my heart like nothing else. And, and I was thinking, what would it be like, if I lived my life, the way that I respond to him? Right? Because regardless of what state he’s in, meaning, anger, sadness, joy, whatever, my heart is so open to him. What if life Reppert? What if he represents life, which in a sense he does, because life is full of ups and downs? What would it be like if I could call do this practice of like, yeah, the life is my grandson.


Heather Clark  29:56

I like where that takes me. I really did get because What if? Well, what if we were to all try that on think of something or someone that lights us up so completely? And then what if we related to everything like that? from that place? Yeah. And all the people whose brains go Well, yeah, but like, Okay, and now I invite you to wait till that dissipates and lean into it. What if we tried that on?


Nat Couropmitree  30:27

Yeah, if you try it on? I’d love to hear from you.


Heather Clark  30:32

Yeah, yeah. For real?


Nat Couropmitree  30:34

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I notice, for myself, not so easy. Yeah, it’s definitely what I would like to do. But conditioning or default patterns take over really quickly.


Heather Clark  30:58

Right. Absolutely they do. But again, it’s that opportunity to tune back into presence and moment to moment, oh, in this moment, I got pulled away off and had old conditioning. Okay, but this next moment, totally open hearted as if I was with at for you. It’s your grandson. For me, it’s the puppy for me, you know, whatever your happy thing is, and that ope got pulled off of it. Cool. I choose to come right back to like, — Why not?


Heather Clark  31:29

Because I think that at least in this society, we’re kind of taught, oh, you’re either doing it or you’re not. And if you’re not doing it from moment to moment to moment about well, you’re not doing it? Well. No. What if you only get three moments today, where you relate to the world? From that open hearted place? Well, that’s three more moments and you would have had? what’s the downside of that? I don’t think there is one.


Nat Couropmitree  31:53

Yeah. You know, I think about I mean, there are some movies like this, and there’s someone I just met, who they’re diagnosed with some incurable disease or one that is not so easily curable. And then they change. They decide to change how they respond to life, and how they engage with life.


Nat Couropmitree  32:23

And almost every time, their lifespan increases beyond what the doctors say, not always. But even if even if your lifespan doesn’t expand, doesn’t lengthen. The moments that you’re here are really what counts, right? And so many of us have learned that, like the joy, the fulfillment is out there later when I get there. And they miss out on the richness of life that is here. So I like your suggestion of like, what if it’s just three moments is still three more moments than not then like living in dread or living in disappointment?


Heather Clark  33:21

How can people either begin or continue to shift away from the perception of when these circumstances are in place, I will be happier if I can move this place. Now I’m safe and happy and things will be fun. And because and as you’re pondering that what I want to share is what I’ve noticed is happening to a lot of people, at least in my orbit, there’s a lot of people like I got all the things I did all the things I wanted to do that were going to bring me joy, and here I am. And this sucks more than I could possibly have imagined. So how can people begin to step into that either before after or during the process of obtaining what they desire?


Nat Couropmitree  34:10

Yeah, first of all, I mean, we’re laughing at that.


Heather Clark  34:14

Because we all have a lived experience of


Nat Couropmitree  34:17

Yeah. Right? Yeah, we’re, we’ve all had a lived experience of it. So we’re laughing at it, but when you’re in it, it’s not always laughable. So I want to speak to that. So the answer your question, what I find and this is part of my, my unconditional receiving model or bold alive in this model, is to choose to live from a specific state of being and see where it leads you so so In my model, on the unconditional receiving side, I have these five qualities, wonder, connection, trust, authority. abundance that it says again. So I’ll run through again.


Nat Couropmitree  35:19

One wonder abundance, trust, connection and authority. Okay? These are states of being attitudes, consciousness, how we’re whichever way that you can relate to it. And the invitation is, what would life be like, if you lived, let’s say, with an attitude of wonder, day in, day out, and wonder it’s like, being playful, being awestruck, having curiosity, right? What if you live life like that? And responded to life like that? And life being like everyday things like, Oh, this happened to me? Oh, I’m curious about this, you know, why is this happening? What else is possible?


Nat Couropmitree  36:11

So, and sometimes I go on these, like, Wonder walks, you know, and I go, and I’m like, okay, I want to go and experience the world from a place of wonder. And it’s amazing. It’s such a simple thing. But I see things differently. I experience things differently. I see things that I didn’t see before, where I can walk down the same block in my neighborhood.


Nat Couropmitree  36:42

And one day, I just decide, today’s can be a wonder walk. And again, I just see things differently. So that that’s an invitation to do that. Because when you choose to show up with a different attitude, you can’t help but see, and experience the world differently. Right. But when you when you live from this conditioned place, where like, for instance, we’re taught


Nat Couropmitree  37:17

Well, the more stuff that I accumulate and achieve and the more success I have, then I will be happy. That’s a condition thing. There’s no, there’s no alive ness in that, because you’re essentially ignoring or abandoning who you are, or what you are, to try to get this thing out there. Right. And there’s no, like, you’re not living from connection, you’re trying to get connection through the things that you accumulate. That’s always gonna be a losing battle. Right? It’s kind of the hole in the bucket type of thing. You keep on filling, and it keeps on emptying.


Heather Clark  38:12

Which is an excellent recipe for stress and burnout, if you’re trying to fill this bucket that keeps emptying. So it’s, it doesn’t sound like Well, when I have this circumstance, when I have this thing, when I have this job, when I have this new location, then I’ll have insert whatever here, I’ll have joy, I’ll have happiness, I’ll have safety, I’ll have possibilities, blah, blah, blah. It feels like you’re suggesting that we play with Well, what if you already have that?


Nat Couropmitree  38:40

Mm hmm.


Heather Clark  38:41

And what if you used one of your five and I love wonder, I just was immediately delighted when you said wonder–like, that’s the one I’m going to be using. If you adopted an attitude of wonder, for everything in your life, it sounds like you’re suggesting, with that shift in energy with that shift in attitude, necessarily, things will come to you differently. And perhaps one result will be you’ll see, oh, no, I already have everything that I thought this circumstance would bring. And maybe you still want the circumstance and maybe you don’t like but now. It just really feels like there’s a lot more freedom around it. You’re not driven to I need this in order to have that. Like I can have that like right now.


Nat Couropmitree  39:25

Yeah. When you step into wonder, in again, you can think about a flower a kid, something that just like opens your heart and you’re there. That’s the thing that we I think we really want is to feel like we’re there but it’s here through and so wonder is like to use one of your favorite words a portal to access presence.


Heather Clark  39:55



Nat Couropmitree  39:57

Right. And so it’s it’s a Beautiful and simple way to start living from presence with a very tangible, something that your mind can wrap around. Like, sometimes it’s hard, like, How the hell do I live from presence? Right? But if you think about it from wonder, Well, how do I live from wonder, okay, there’s something there that I can try on.


Heather Clark  40:22

Cuz there’s a lot that’s encapsulated. There’s delight. There’s curiosity. There’s just Yeah, and it’s. And I love that, because that is a very tangible tool. That’s something that a person can try on this minute. Just see, oh, yeah, this whole room looks different from a place of wonder.


Nat Couropmitree  40:39



Heather Clark  40:40

yeah, you can’t maintain it. That’s fine. Just try it back on again.


Nat Couropmitree  40:46

Right. Right. When I work with people one on one, I also helped them identify a personal avatar for this quality of, let’s say, Wonder or any of the other qualities, and it serves kind of like, You’re, you’re almost like a guide that can offer more specificity for you of like, oh, how can wonders really support me? You know, what do I need to what are some of the things that I need to make as a part of my everyday life that can really enhance my joy, or really support me?


Nat Couropmitree  41:30

So that’s, that’s another tangible thing. And it works to help people trust more in what they’re receiving again, it’s just another. It’s like, here’s present. And then you have like, the, the outfit of Wonder over it. And then you have like this other outfit, which is the avatar, which is just kind of a representation, a rapper, representative of Wonder for you?


Heather Clark  42:05

Yeah. Well, that again, it gives us it’s just a lot easier to access. It’s not this esoteric, okay, I’ll just be present. Because then your brain just, Oh, my God, how can I be anything but present? But what’s that mean to be present? I’m like, No, no, let’s like, now I can try this on. Oh, that works. And here’s an avatar, which makes it even more solid.


Nat Couropmitree  42:27

Yeah. The other quality that I won’t want to talk about right now is authority. And I just started teaching, I just started this program called embody your power to receive. And it’s really about authority, like really owning your authority. And this is one that I find challenging, especially among, like intuitives, and, and past healers, coaches, because when we were kids, people in authority often rubbed us the wrong way. Right.


Nat Couropmitree  43:10

And we also have had, at least for me, I’ve seen many the example of misuse of power. And I had vowed at an early age, I want none of that. But I realized how wrong I was to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I think that’s right. That’s the saying. That’s what I got, okay. Meaning, having power itself doesn’t mean it has to be abusive. It doesn’t have to be oppressive. Right, we can, we can be in our power and use it as a force for good. And that’s something that I have learned, and I’m still learning because it it can feel viscerally uncomfortable.


Nat Couropmitree  44:17

Yeah, to, especially if you spent years not owning your power and just kind of being very wishy washy with your boundaries, to set boundaries to speak up, sometimes feels like you’re attracting the wrong type of attention.


Heather Clark  44:39

Yeah. And I would add to this, what I’ve noticed, for myself and for others is that unwelded power is not benign.


Nat Couropmitree  44:50

Mm hmm


Heather Clark  44:50

Like if you have power that you are not claiming, if it’s your power, and you’re not claiming it, if you’re not using it however you choose to that can Often that alone can create problems. And it sometimes it’s as simple as a wait, that’s right. I’m a leader, let me just, I’m a leader. And then it’s that cleaning of the energy, that doesn’t mean that your actions are different.


Heather Clark  45:15

But a lot of times people can really sense when people aren’t claiming their power it creates. I don’t know how to articulate it exactly. But it’s an unsettling of a group. And with that mental Oh, no, wait, that’s right. I’m a leader. And I claim that it just the whole room can relax, whether or not you speak up and use that power. It’s whether or not you’d right action from it. It’s completely different. But it’s a form of wielding is that claiming of No, no, this is my power. And I can set boundaries at any time, and I can make choices and this is all fine.


Nat Couropmitree  45:51

Yeah. And there are obviously many types of leadership, like, you know, my, my way of leading often is through presence. And just kind of just through a how I’m being guide, a group. Right. And that used to be like, people saying that your leader like, I don’t know, who you see, but No, I’m not. But it was that I’m not that type of leader, the one that we’re used to seeing. And so owning my power, in the way that I lead was empowering. Yeah. Yeah,


Heather Clark  46:40

yeah. And there’s, I completely agree in lots of different forms of leadership. And leading from a being state, and especially the being state of presence. You can do that whether or not you’re in a leadership position. There are people on committees or at their work that are just like, but I’m not in charge. Like, that’s not what leadership is. being in charge is a little bit different than leadership. So leading through the energy of being present, really does allow other people to open up. Oh, like this is a safe place, and things tend to go in a direction that makes a lot more sense for everybody. And again, whether or not you’ve uttered a word. Yeah. I love that. I really love this exploration of authority.


Nat Couropmitree  47:29

Yeah, I do, too. I mean, it’s something that I avoided for a long time. A long time.


Heather Clark  47:40

Me too. Me too. And that’s why that’s a very personal example of Oh, wait, I’m the leader. And I maybe don’t say anything. I maybe don’t do anything. I just once I’m like, Oh, yeah, that’s right. I try it back on and everybody tends to calm down, things get easier crowds part. It’s a weird. It’s a weird thing. But But yeah, and I really love that exploration fun.


Nat Couropmitree  48:08

And we could do what we’re doing here too, which is co leading. Yeah. Right. And so it doesn’t always have to be just one person, like in this conversation, you’re taking lead, and then you I take the lead, and it’s just this beautiful dance between us.


Heather Clark  48:22

Yeah. And like no one person is driving the whole thing. There are some people I guess, that are wired to drive the whole thing. That’s cool. But I don’t know, it’s not fun for me, I’d rather rather co create with a bunch of people working with a group of leaders who have claimed their own empowerment is so unbelievably fun. So much fun. So and then you’re like, you’re all leaders? And why not? And there’s a lot of leaders that are in that situation, that maybe don’t have that mental framework to look at it from this. So if you’re listening to this, it’s possible that you’re also a leader. And what if you tried that on? What does that open up for you? Who do you get to be when you’re living from your own authority?


Nat Couropmitree  49:13

Beautiful, yeah. So beautiful.


Heather Clark  49:16

So I would love to know, what’s your origin story? How did you come to be doing this work?


Nat Couropmitree  49:23

Pain, struggle, suffering.


Heather Clark  49:27

You took the fun way.


Nat Couropmitree  49:31

I took the most direct way. I think I remember reading years ago of like, you know, like, there are things that like sometimes we get involved in that take us away from our path that like service distractions. Like uni might be really good at sports or you might be really, you know, I’m like, Well, I was always picked last. So that was I have a new, right. But I just remember at such a young age, I didn’t know why I was alive. And I really questioned my purpose, my my value in the world.


Nat Couropmitree  50:17

And I just had such a deep pain about that and really at a young age, and I I sought to fix that. And I think I did what a lot of people did, they jumped into personal development and you know, try to find ways to overcome or perceived, lack and fix ourselves and did that for a number of years. And that didn’t work either. Definitely didn’t work. And then and then I tried fixing a different way, which was like trying to overachieve. Trying to make the outside look pretty. So that it could hide what I was holding inside as like, deep fear and deep like loss of value, you know, not enough notice.


Nat Couropmitree  51:26

So I was trying to, like, create this beautiful, like, Oh, look at me, I’m so great, I’m successful. And money has been such a great teacher for me. Because I struggled a lot with money, I would have money, and I would lose it, I would take enormous risks, thinking that I would somehow make it back and I never did. And not in that way. And so all of this is to say that I tried all the ways that I thought were going to bring me fulfillment, and none of it did.


Nat Couropmitree  52:08

And so the only thing left, really, which has been here all, you know, the story of like the holy grail, like you’re looking for it everywhere, but it’s like right here inside of you, right? That’s how I came to this. And even then even when it came to this work of like presence. I resisted it. I was like, No, this is not the way I’m giving up control. I’m like, I have to be in control this hast it. Oh. And well, universe has a way of showing you that? No, no control?


Heather Clark  52:56

Because was it really giving up control? Or was it giving up the illusion of control?


Nat Couropmitree  53:03

Yeah, absolutely giving up the illusion because really, you have no control, you only have the perception of control that like, oh, if I could just manipulate the people around me or manipulate the circumstances so that I can feel safe, loved and valued. But never feeling like I could really feel that because circumstances and people always change. So it becomes very tiring, very exhausting, and leads to burnout. Because you’ve never had control. And any attempt at trying to micromanage or be hyper vigilant to keep everything in place. That’s the Fast Pass the the fast lane to burnout.


Heather Clark  53:52

And don’t forget pushing through the messages that are telling you maybe you could stop.


Nat Couropmitree  53:58

That’s rather than the initial


Nat Couropmitree  54:00

right at the initial stages of burnout, like just like, you know, stress, oh, that’s just stress or a breakdown of the body initial breakdown, like oh, that’s just nothing and the work is more important. Like I’ve done that. I’ve done that so many times, I got sick so many times. And like messages through my body are that’s how the universe gets my attention the most.


Heather Clark  54:27

Yeah, the issue with that, is that a lot of people who are doing that a lot of people that have a lot of capacity to push through and double down and ignore and this is great. There’s a lot of societal rewards for that. It’s a badge of honor and without realizing that the trade off is you you’re trading yourself away for this perceived reward. That may or may not even be that valuable.


Nat Couropmitree  54:58

Yeah, forget who said Maybe it was the Dalai Lama owes something like, like you worked so hard to achieve this thing, and the push through it, and but at the end of it, you can enjoy it. Because your body is just a mess.


Heather Clark  55:22

Yeah, or you get there and you look around, you’re like, this is not what I thought it was gonna be. I did all this work, or I paid all this money, or I struggled so much or whatever to get here. And this sucks. And because it, it’s even more devastating because I did all of this. And now I don’t even enjoy it.


Nat Couropmitree  55:48



Heather Clark  55:49

and, and I think that’s up a little stronger for people than perhaps it’s been in the past,


Nat Couropmitree  55:56

Mmm hmm. Yeah, especially this past year with the pandemic. People are like, when a lot of the external stuff was stripped away, you know, the the world shutting down. They’re like, Who am I? What do I do? Like, there’s not this thing out there that I can kind of throw myself into anymore. They had to really look at what was meaningful to them, you know, what really mattered?


Heather Clark  56:25

And who am I without all the trappings? Who am I in this different event and a lot of people with identity crisis, and that is a very, it can be very devastating. So, you know, an incredibly stressful that the joy is when you move through it, and you connect more deeply to who you are, and in your words fully receive all of who you are, with a world just opens up.


Nat Couropmitree  56:53

Yeah, this one, it took me a while to get even when I created this model, I was just so focused on the model. But when I stepped away and like what is it really important here, you know, a liveliness and connecting to myself and living from presence. And it’s like when I when I could really accept who I am.


Nat Couropmitree  57:24

Regardless of what is in my life, whatever that I judged before, as not enough when I could, like really receive myself as I am. Then it’s like, all the barriers all the like shields and armor and walls and filters and fences and whatever that I put up to try to prevent people from seeing the what I thought was the real me.


Nat Couropmitree  57:57

All of that falls away. It’s like you don’t need it anymore. Because you’re, you’re embracing yourself. You’re accepting yourself. You don’t need to hide you just like, yeah, this is who I am. And I love it. It’s okay. It’s okay, that this is what my life is right now. It’s okay. When you have that such level of acceptance. It’s like


Nat Couropmitree  58:24

the world. I’m going to say like, it’s like the world just like showers you with all these blessings. But the truth is, the world has always been showering you with all these blessings. And you’re just like, wait, not yet.


Nat Couropmitree  58:38

I got more to do.


Nat Couropmitree  58:40

I can’t have it yet. There’s I I haven’t finished this yet. I gotta do more. And, like, that’s been my experiences lately. It’s like, things have been coming to me. Because I’m no longer judging what is or isn’t enough. I’m just allowing, I’m just allowing, and it’s, it’s amazing. Like, I would never have thought that this was a possibility that I could actually do less and not in like the way like people say like, you know, like to try to manage your life and that sort of thing. It’s like literally, I do less.


Nat Couropmitree  59:22

And the opportunities find their way to me. It’s just like Mind blown. Yeah, when it happens now I’m just like really grateful. And it’s, it’s really a beautiful thing.


Heather Clark  59:41

I love that. I love that. Thank you. And we have recently discovered that part of our wiring is such that there’s a matchup in at least one area and we really help people access vitality. And the fun part when I talk to other people that Help people access vitality. We do it from such different paths. And yours is people. It’s bold aliveness behind is like unshakable, unstoppable, vibrant again, like really unlocking all that vitality. And it’s just been so delicious. To explore that your path to get people there is a little bit different. Just as powerful. And it’s just, that’s just such a delight to talk with you.


Nat Couropmitree  1:00:35

I yeah, I I’m so grateful that we get the talk. It’s been a while. Yeah. And I mean, when I when we first came on, and I heard your voice, right, I’m like, Ah, yes. Like, it’s just like that. Just who you’re being that’s coming through your voice. It just called me and I was just so delighted. And so I’m just so thankful. so grateful. Heather, for this time with you.


Heather Clark  1:01:10

Thank you. Thank you. I am super curious. What does it mean to you to be unshakable? Hmm, I


Nat Couropmitree  1:01:22

think it’s everything that we talked about today. Living from presence. But if I were to make it more specific to me, I’d be like living, living from love living as love.


Nat Couropmitree  1:01:44

Now, just allowing everything and knowing that you’re okay.


Heather Clark  1:01:53

Allowing everything knowing that you’re okay. Like, I just invite people to try that on. Who would I be if I were allowing everything? And knowing that you’re okay, who would I be living from love? Who would I be? And I just invite you to really try that on. Because even if it doesn’t initially resonate, you’ll find something in there. And it’ll shift how you’re being, and it will feel a lot more natural. Well, I tell you what, well, but that’s been my experience. And that’s been the experience of many. And it’s just a lot more fun to go through life like that.


Nat Couropmitree  1:02:37

It can be more fun. Sure. It’s not always is but it can be, there’s definitely more instead of pockets of joy. They’re like pockets of distress, and everything else is it’s just more rich, I would say.


Heather Clark  1:02:59

Yeah, it’s a richer way of living. It’s not like nothing bad will happen. Because that’s, that’s ridiculous. That’s very static, you can achieve that, but for a very short space of time. And then, you know, once that pedestal topples, it’s super unpleasant. So I prefer the more unshakable approach the whole notice as an internal equilibrium, and then move through life. present in every moment, or as present as a person can be.


Nat Couropmitree  1:03:31

Yeah, and the more that we live from that presence, right, like if you think about nature, nature is naturally resilient. Which is another word for unshakable for me. And it’s in their nature to be resilient they find a way because that they’re not trapped by a thinking mind of who they should be. Or the can’t be right they just they just live and I think the more that we become more our of our true nature. The richer life becomes


Heather Clark  1:04:14

that’s beautifully put. Thank you. Where can we find you? Because there are people are like, okay, like, how do I find him?


Nat Couropmitree  1:04:28

If you’re in the Boston area, you can come visit me. I think I think my address is on my website. I’m not gonna say it here. But you can. You can go there and we’ll have a social distanced party in the background or just party meeting just sitting around circle talking. And


Heather Clark  1:04:48

the best kind,


Nat Couropmitree  1:04:52

the best kind, but you can also find me online. My website is I also have a quiz. If you Want to decide or not decide but discover what type of conditional receiver you are. So that’s called a live nest comm slash quiz. And you can find me now on Twitter I’ve discovered rediscovered Twitter. Yeah, so Nat Croton tree on Twitter and then allowing Nat on Instagram.


Heather Clark  1:05:26

Beautiful and this quiz folks, really, please take this quiz. It can really change your life. It gives you insight like you’ve never seen before. And it gives you at least it gave me some tangible things to relate to that I could then once I discerned what it was could choose to shift it and it’s just just the quiz is very powerful. Nat, thank you so much.


Nat Couropmitree  1:05:52

Thank you, Heather. I appreciate you so much.


Heather Clark  1:05:54

I appreciate you. You’re always a delight.


Nat Couropmitree  1:05:57

Thank you.


Heather Clark  1:06:00

Thanks so much for listening. I’d love to hear from you. Go to and submit your question, comment, or topic request. May you be unshakable, unstoppable, and vibrant again. Until next time.