Build Resilience via Relationships with Macy Matarazzo

What if you could build resilience using the relationships you have (and the ones you want)? Join love & relationship expert for singles Macy Matarazzo and I as we explore how to build emotional resilience by using relationships (and according to Macy EVERYTHING is a relationship!).

In this episode you’ll discover:

  • Tools and practices to take care of your emotional well-being
  • How burnout can result from being on the defense in or with relationships
  • How nurturing yourself improves relationships
  • What to do when you feel like you’ve “evolved beyond” what’s available
  • How to create clear internal and external boundaries to support great relationships

Featured Guest

Macy Matarazzo

Love & Relationship Expert for Singles

A girl of the ’70s, success for Macy was climbing the corporate ladder saying “I don’t need a man” (but wanting Prince Charming!), then finding herself in her 40’s alone, convinced that if love hasn’t just happened she’s unlovable.

That’s when she stopped “winging it”, and decided to do whatever it takes to figure out “love”. Before long, she married Larry, the perfect match.

As she shared her story, others found love too. So she quit her 6 figure gig to help singles all over the world find the one using her SuperLOVED™ system.


Free Love Quiz:

episode transcription

Heather Clark  00:01

Welcome to Unshakable Being, the podcast with inspiration and practical tools for purpose led leaders like you to relieve stress, build resilience, and unlock vitality in your life, body and business. I am Dr. Heather Clark, and I’ll be your host.


Heather Clark  00:19

Hello, and welcome back to the show. Today we have on Macy Matarazzo. She is a relationship expert, very looking forward to getting into that. She’s a girl of the 70s. And for her success was climbing the corporate ladder saying I don’t need a man while still wanting Prince Charming. And then finding herself in her 40s alone convinced that if love hasn’t just happened, that she’s unlovable. I don’t know if anybody could really relate to the feeling of being unlovable. It’s when she stopped winging it and decided to do whatever it takes to figure out quote, love. And before long she married her perfect match.


Heather Clark  01:01

Macy. Welcome to the show.


Macy Matarazzo  01:03

I’m so glad to be here.


Heather Clark  01:05

I’m excited to have you.


Heather Clark  01:10

So we did a little talking beforehand, listeners trying to discern what the best question is. And I think I’m just going to ask her a really big, really open ended question. And we’re just going to see where it takes us.


Heather Clark  01:23

So Macy, I would like to learn more about how emotional resilience impacts relationships. And that’s either relationships, you already have relationships you’re hoping to get and take it take it away Macy.


Macy Matarazzo  01:42

I love that. I think it’s so great that you’re asking that because I was just talking about that today in terms of dating, because one of the things that people come to me for is really getting to that place where that they, they can feel confident in putting themselves out there to create a conscious loving relationship.


Macy Matarazzo  02:04

And I know that in the modern dating world, where nowadays, there’s so many apps and tools that it really does take being able to have the tools and practices to take care of our emotional well being in order to actually be available to meet someone.


Macy Matarazzo  02:29

And when you’re putting yourself out there, there’s a lot of triggers and fear that can come up when you’re meeting people. And so that’s really where I see it in the forefront of my work is around dating. And so a lot of the tools I teach really are about helping people access their own strength and inner power to take care of themselves in that way.


Heather Clark  03:03

And do you find when clients don’t take the time to do that? What’s the quality of relationship they tend to find themselves in.


Macy Matarazzo  03:14

Either they don’t actually put themselves out there, they’re too scared, or they’re in a story about not being good enough, or maybe there’s something wrong with me. Or they continue to kind of create the same bad mediocre relationships where the norm is being in the chaos or the drama or the trauma and, and that doesn’t lead to a long term, happy, healthy relationship.


Macy Matarazzo  03:50

But for many people, that’s just the norm. So what I like to say is, okay, what’s possible in creating something greater and when you know yourself, and you know who you are, and you know, how to be with your highs and lows and your stresses and care for yourself in those ways, then you’re naturally going to be able to attract someone who has that level of well being.


Heather Clark  04:23

So it’s almost like, perhaps people have heard your vibe attracts your tribe. So it’s whatever you’re resonating at, however you’re behaving in the world, who your being in the world, is really what’s going to you’re going to get that same quality matched back.


Macy Matarazzo  04:40

I believe that but I also believe that once you start doing that kind of work and you are working with your emotional resiliency, then you’re going to probably notice that you’re raising the bar. You’re raising the bar as to what it is that you want to have in your Life, and you’re no longer in that default of tolerating or depriving or thinking that you have to fix everyone else. And, and the things that really do keep you from having something phenomenal.


Macy Matarazzo  05:23

And you may be hearing my snoring dog in the background, which is free, sound healing, no charge.


Heather Clark  05:35

I love that.


Heather Clark  05:44

So with what’s really interesting to me as it sounds like what you run into with clients is something similar to what I run into with clients, especially those who come to me for burnout. Where that when they first come, what they want is to feel less bad. And I see like, Oh, so much more as possible.


Heather Clark  06:05

And a long time ago, when I was first getting started, I would try and know so much more as possible, let’s hold out for more. And I’m like, they know, it’s been so crappy for so long, that it’s real hard to see that. But as they recover partway through, they’re like, Oh, my goodness. But my goals have changed is no longer I want to be less bad. I want the magic and the possibility,


Macy Matarazzo  06:27



Heather Clark  06:30

similar in that when they begin doing that work, and building that it’s not so much actively building resistance, resilience, but doing the emotional work, that they then begin to see Oh, so much more as possible. I don’t need to accept this, this relationship, this drama, this problem.


Macy Matarazzo  06:50

I love how you said that, that is so great, because it’s true. It’s going from a place where I see a lot of people putting themselves out there with this, basically fight against the wrong relationship or the commitment to, ‘I really don’t want to get into the bad ones again’, which in a way brings a lot of energy to that.


Macy Matarazzo  07:17

And then there’s a lot of burnout actually, that happens from being on the defense, defending against the bad defending against the relationships they’ve had before rather than, which is this is where the the beautiful shift can happen is when they can get into this place of what would I love? What would be fun for me? What is that life I want to live in love? And who do I need to be and who is the person that would fit into that to create that.


Macy Matarazzo  07:52

And that is a completely different space, and there is a lot more ease? It’s hard to understand when you’ve been in the pain before. But over time, that’s where we get and and that’s where I see that if you’re in a place where you’re asking the question, what would I love? What would be fun for me, then you are going to be more available for longer. You’re not just like constantly using all your energy to protect against the worst? What


Heather Clark  08:21

supports your clients to get to that point? Because I know, especially when you’re supporting people who are dating, dating can be very challenging. And it’s really easy to slip into a mindset for a lot of people anyway that well, what can I have? Instead of What do I want? So what tools do do you offer that can really help people support that?


Macy Matarazzo  08:45

That’s a good question of the dating phase. In my world, my my system is called the super love system, the dating phase is actually what I call phase two. Because initially, what we want to do is get to the source of any place where we have those beliefs that keep us in these low bar relationships, or keep us from thinking that we can have something greater or keep us thinking that we’re broken or there’s something wrong with us on unconsciously.


Macy Matarazzo  09:17

So the tool that I use primarily is called Regenerating Images and Memory. And it’s a tool that was created by Dr. Deb sandela. And it works with that subconscious place. So that wherever we have those emotional barriers, those emotional blocks or those old those emotional experiences that are what triggers us in relationship, we can get to the source, and we actually change that.


Macy Matarazzo  09:49

And when we change that then the person is different and it’s no longer something that has to be a limitation and there’s more space to receive Something different. So we do that first because then I find people have a completely different point of view around dating. At that point, we’re already into that place where you you described as, Oh, what would I want, what would be fun, and then we can actually have some fun.


Heather Clark  10:23

That’s, that’s beautiful. And I love that there are some actual tools instead of just believe, just try it on, you know, because there’s a place for that. But that is, can be so hard to hear. So there’s an actual process to move through, that can help get you to a spot where you’re not accepting just what’s available. You’re not settling, you’re choosing.


Macy Matarazzo  10:50

Exactly, and it’s, it’s not anyone’s fault. I mean, we develop these beliefs and ways of being around relationship before age seven. And that is something where we don’t know what we don’t know, in so many ways. And so for most people, because no one’s learning about how to have an intimate relationship in elementary school. So the beauty of this is what can be possible when we actually learn and take care of that space and step into a different reality around our love life. And so there are skills, there are tools, and there there is inner work that can help people create space.


Heather Clark  11:45

Not I love that you’re saying not required to but can certainly help people


Macy Matarazzo  11:50

do that way. Yeah. And if you don’t like what you’re seeing in your relationship life, I mean, there may be people out there that marry their highschool sweetheart, and they’re perfectly happy. But for people who come to me later in life 40s 50s 60s and have had maybe a bad experience or a marriage that didn’t work out, then you want to say okay, well, like you would with anything, if you’re have a broken leg, you’re not going to just limp around and hope it fixes itself.


Macy Matarazzo  12:21

You go in, you get some support, and you create something different. And there’s no shame around that. So one of the things I like to tell people right out the gate is let go of the idea that there’s anything, that there’s something wrong with you if you need help with your love life, because this is a core human desire to connect, and why not? Learn More?


Heather Clark  12:52

Yeah, and do it in a way it sounds like your approach really has people nurturing themselves.


Macy Matarazzo  12:59

Exactly. I mean, it’s a relationships, relationship is all there is. So when we can start with that space of self awareness, then we can really have that honoring of ourselves that like vulnerability and intimacy with ourselves, which is typically what people are hoping to create in a love relationship. But they’re not always aware that it starts with themselves. And I know for me, for example, I’ve always studied personal development.


Macy Matarazzo  13:37

I’ve been crazy about reading and following different spiritual teachers since I was 16. And yet, my challenge in life was relationship, I found myself in my 40s still single, and thinking, Okay, I’ve read all the books, I’ve done a lot of work what what’s going on? And so if you had asked me in my 20s, or in my 30s, if I was confident about dating or confident about meeting people, I would have said, Yeah, absolutely.


Macy Matarazzo  14:09

And then it just took me a while to recognize how many places I, I sort of pinched off or cut off of myself because I actually wasn’t aware that I made that wrong or bad or not attractive. And so it just took a next level of really relating to myself to go, Okay, what can I do to actually create a relationship and make that a priority and get the support I needed and, and be that conscious person around us? And then things changed.


Heather Clark  14:56

And you’ve spoken about personal development because certainly, we’re both on the same page personal development? Yes, absolutely. And I have a lot of friends and colleagues who at one time or another for those who are in the dating field, they, the question is, have I evolved beyond what’s available?


Heather Clark  15:16

Because it can be real frustrating. So could you speak to that when people feel like, oh, maybe I’m so quote, enlightened, you know, not really enlightened, but I’m no longer willing to put up with Bs, I’m no longer willing to put up with this other stuff. And now I find I’m not on very many dates. Can you speak to that?


Macy Matarazzo  15:39

So are you saying that there’s a point where people feel like, they’re, there’s no one that can match them? Because they’re so evolved?


Heather Clark  15:47

Um, not so much that it’s. So this is a transition point. Again, I’d love how many parallels there are with people in burnout or recovery, or something like this. But there comes a point where it’s like, well, I’ve got really firm boundaries, I am no longer willing to put up with anything that isn’t aligned with me. And…


Heather Clark  16:11

so I’ve got friends who are dating, and they’re just like, and just kind of nobody in the dating pool, it feels like, is that something that you find your clients are running into? Or is that I just wanted to hear more about that perspective.


Macy Matarazzo  16:25

I have seen that before. And usually, usually, there’s something that we can play with. Because when you’re out there, and you have that desire for a love relationship in, you’re saying, yes, that is something I’d like to create. And yet you’re looking out there and you’re not seeing anything.


Macy Matarazzo  16:47

Typically, and I’m not going to say globally, but typically, what I find is that there is something that is still scary, or holding them back or not feeling safe to receive a relationship, that when we can get underneath that, which is really what I love about this process, regenerating images and memory, it really knows how to get to the source that we find what it is, and I’ve had it over and over and over again.


Macy Matarazzo  17:29

Well, people will come to me really smart, people who have done work, who’ve read all the books, and they come to me, and we still can change it for them. And then before long, they’re there meeting people of their caliber, which is something that I found too, so I see it a lot.


Heather Clark  17:50

I love it. So what I’m hearing is it’s almost like, yes, yes. And there’s just one or two tweaks like you’re nearly there.


Macy Matarazzo  17:58

Yes. And, and if the desire is there, I really do believe that there’s there someone I mean, I think of it in the relationship space, as I mean, and this is more maybe of the spiritual woowoo point of view.


Macy Matarazzo  18:14

But when you have that desire, that desire for a love relationship is not exclusively yours, you the the desire itself includes someone. So that desire is someone else’s too. So therefore, you are someone else’s miracle as they are for you. So it can’t exist independently. You can’t have a desire for a love relationship without the potential for it to be there.


Heather Clark  18:54

You can’t have desire for a love relationship without the potential for it to be there and repeating this so it really soaks in for people. I love that.


Heather Clark  19:03

Love it.


Macy Matarazzo  19:04

Yeah, I always I love to remind people of that because I think it’s easy to think, oh, wow, I want someone I want this person. Remember that you are also desired by someone who hasn’t met you yet. You are someone’s miracle and for those moments that you may want to give up or say forget it.


Macy Matarazzo  19:32

Maybe it’s not in the cards or this you know it hasn’t happened yet. So forget it. Whatever the the drama that can come up in moments of weakness that to say you know what, if you’re not willing to keep going for you, are you willing to keep going for the person that’s looking for you love it.


Heather Clark  20:00

Love it.


Heather Clark  20:02

So one of the things you said was how important relationship is and there’s nothing but relationship. Talk to me about that, but from the perspective of what’s your, what about your relationship to yourself?


Macy Matarazzo  20:18

Yes. relationship is all there is relationship to ourselves relationship to divine relationship to money relationship to colleagues and nature. It’s, I think of it all this all relationships. So in our relationship to ourselves. I know, you and I were kind of chuckling about this before we got on the recording that it can be a hard one, right?


Macy Matarazzo  20:47

When so many teachers are out there saying, you have to love yourself, you have to have that self love. And for me personally, that was so overwhelming. What does that mean? How can I do that? If I’m really honest, that just seems impossible, because it’s so up and down, even for me now.


Macy Matarazzo  21:14

So I said, you know, what, what actually works for me is having that self appreciation. So I kind of call that the gateway drug to self love, because I can appreciate myself.


Macy Matarazzo  21:30

And the other thing I hear a lot that I think can be kind of tricky, maybe not for everyone, this is my personal experience. But this idea of self acceptance. I mean, even when I say the word acceptance, it bugs me, because it’s like, already, there’s judgment in there.


Macy Matarazzo  21:52

Okay, oh, I have to accept something, because it’s not good enough. And so for me, once again, I move from that to an honoring of myself, an awareness of myself, and appreciation of myself. And those pieces, or pieces that I find that most people can dance with.


Heather Clark  22:19

Because really, it does boil down to self love. And if you just tell somebody, it’s, it’s all about self love. So go to it. Like, oh, oh, okay. And I’ll climb Everest tomorrow.


Macy Matarazzo  22:34



Heather Clark  22:35

Sure. So I love this as an on ramp. Just really about as a way to, here’s a small step, what if you just did a little bit more. And if you don’t know what it means for self love, that’s great. Why not appreciation? Or allowing your right acceptance that gets a little squirrely for people, but what if it’s just 1% more grace for myself than I did yesterday? Like, just a little bit? And that moves you in the direction towards? Oh, this is what people are talking about with self love.


Macy Matarazzo  23:12

I agree. And I think that one of the most powerful tools is what you just said is, can you do 1% 1%? More, a half a percent more, one and a half percent? You know, whatever. That is? choosable at that at that point?


Heather Clark  23:34

Exactly. And not, okay, I got a push. And I got to do this at No, no, no, no. Just just slightly more, slightly more frequently.


Macy Matarazzo  23:44

Yeah. Because it’s, it just becomes a perpetual thing. And I think you kind of were talking to this before, you know, when we’re on this journey, and it’s this journey to evolve and grow. That, you know, truthfully, I do feel like that’s my life, a consistent practice of evolution and learning.


Macy Matarazzo  24:16

And that’s actually fun for me. But I know that a lot of people can feel burned out from that. How much more inner work do I have to do? How much more of this do I have to do? And then it starts, it can backfire and start feeling like, oh, wow, it’s a wrongness. I’m never always broken or something like that.


Macy Matarazzo  24:38

So being able to really be present with what’s working for you and, and knowing that we are constantly evolving, that is the truth, that we’re in a constant state of change, and so is the world and the planet. In clearly our communities and life is changing all the time.


Heather Clark  25:08

What works better for you? Or perhaps maybe you have a client example for how to really focus on that relationship with the continuing evolution.


Macy Matarazzo  25:24

For me, it’s a presence. It’s okay, there’s not somewhere I have to be. It’s like, what is available here, right now? That is a choice that I can make, that can support me, or that’s fun for me, or that feels aligned for me. And it’s the same thing with dating. I have people say to me, oh, well, what do I do on a first date?


Macy Matarazzo  25:58

And I’m like, Well, I’m not on the first date. So it’s your date. And the kind of teaching that I like to do around this is to give people their power, and to be able to be present and aware and conscious.


Macy Matarazzo  26:14

And know that with you, and the moment, there are things available, there are these like, insights and inspirations that are only here in this moment. And when you’re on a first date is similar. It’s you plus that specific person, and that point of time, and you two together, and then there’s going to be an energy and a space and a curiosity to say,


Macy Matarazzo  26:44

Okay, well, what do I wonder now, and that does take skill, and, and a consciousness, I mean, my whole program is about the art and the consciousness of finding the one. And that’s not a bunch of rules, I’m not going to give someone a bunch of rules, okay, on the first date, you want to say this first and then this second, and then do a really cute week, and then, you know,


Heather Clark  27:15

so So it sounds like it’s offering more of a general structure, not a script. And the key thing is to be present and respond, not necessarily reacting, but just being as present as possible, so that you can respond or say, you know, I need a minute with that, I don’t know, if I want to go do that. Let’s talk about something else for a second. And, and then if they can’t roll with that, well, that’s important data,


Macy Matarazzo  27:42

is data, you’re right, and it does take having the confidence to be there. Because if you are not talking about resilience, if you are being run by those inner critics or by the insecurities, and the fears are the old, you know, the pain from the past, and all of that is what is in the forefront and has not been addressed, then it’s going to be really hard to be present to that person.


Macy Matarazzo  28:16

And so that’s, you know, for those who don’t want to go on a path, then the 20 somethings are not saying that 20 somethings don’t want to be conscious, but but you know, those dating rules are designed for people who aren’t willing to be present or don’t want something more conscious that or needing to have that, because if you’re driving, you’re dating from fear and insecurity, it’s, it’s not going to probably create something that either lasts or that’s healthy.


Heather Clark  28:57

Well, and often when you’re doing something from an energy of fear and insecurity, chances are very good that will then bring you more fear and insecurity. So that doesn’t sound like fun.


Macy Matarazzo  29:08

Well, for some people, that’s the norm. And that’s something I have to learn too, because I recognize that I had a lot of habits of disappointment, and habits of things, not feeling like they worked out. And that was my norm. And it only took doing my own work. And once I got into some meditation practices, I had a lot more awareness about how I was showing up in the world and then started making different choices.


Heather Clark  29:42

Beautiful. So Macy, tell us what’s your origin story? How did you come to be doing this work?


Macy Matarazzo  29:50

My origin story for this work is my journey to love. Really, I mean, like you said in the introduction, I grew up in a time where Women we’re hearing you can have it all, you don’t need a man. And for me, it was kind of a mixed message.


Macy Matarazzo  30:07

Because in my heart, I wanted to have a husband, I thought that whole family thing sounded fun. Hey, I grew up on the Brady Bunch. So that really left me thinking that one, what I wanted in my heart, I shouldn’t want, because we’re supposed to be independent in powerful women.


Macy Matarazzo  30:31

And then I didn’t do anything about that. I thought, Okay, I got to make sure that I’m successful and making money. And so I spent my 20s and 30s, making that the most important thing, and then my relationship space was just, oh, wow, I kind of tripped over this guy who seems like he likes me, I guess we’ll see if it works.


Macy Matarazzo  30:53

And, and then I didn’t really think that I could have what I wanted. I just thought, okay, as long as they like me, I’ll see what can happen. And I my self esteem around that was pretty low. And so it wasn’t until my 40s where I woke up and saw, you know, everyone, all all my friends were married and having babies.


Macy Matarazzo  31:15

And I thought, you know what, this is something I want, I don’t want to do life alone. And that’s when I kind of shifted, and I really felt myself. It felt this like change, it was like something locked in where, where I was willing to make it important, and honor myself.


Macy Matarazzo  31:38

And that feeling of honoring myself, was so powerful. And that set me on this path. And within months, things changed for me in doing things differently. And I met my husband. And then three months after that we were engaged. And then as I shared this with people, they had the same thing happen.


Macy Matarazzo  32:04

And I knew I wanted to get into a field where I could teach and help people because I’ve always been someone who loved learning and coaching people. And so it was a natural next step that I’ve started putting this together into the super love system and began to share it as a full time job. So


Heather Clark  32:30

how fun and in my world that honoring of yourself, that being true to yourself, that is a deep tenet of self love. So it’s like that switch, and it all rushed in.


Macy Matarazzo  32:42

Exactly. And I can I can actually see that when you when you said that and that feeling when it’s like, Okay, wow. You know, what if all of this time I, what I thought self love was, wasn’t really that. And what I didn’t know, self love was is that, you know, whatever. Like it’s just this new relationship with myself that made a huge difference.


Heather Clark  33:17

I love it. And so clearly, you got big results from that, which is amazing. And I’m very curious about how did that impact your resilience?


Macy Matarazzo  33:30

That is still something that is a continuous process, I would say, right.


Heather Clark  33:38

Yeah, everybody.


Macy Matarazzo  33:41

Yeah. And I recognize, though, you know, in the choices that I made, and I think my greatest example of that is the way that I took care of myself when I was dating consciously, and on a path to create my relationship, where I did not allow any of the inner critics to interrupt, I made a very clear barrier.


Macy Matarazzo  34:15

It was a no tolerance zone for drama, or trauma, or going into the sad stories or giving energy to things that weren’t aligned with me. And truly, that is why I created my relationship. Because in the past, I would have dated for maybe two and a half weeks, hardcore, a hardcore person, go into it, do it and then get burned out, and then say, forget it.


Macy Matarazzo  34:45

Maybe I’ll never do this again and then need three months to recover. And the reason the reason I met my person is because I had a plan. I had the emotional tools to take care of myself, and I was Committed to myself in a different way. And that led me to date longer, which gave me enough space to then meet my person.


Heather Clark  35:11

Beautiful. And all the tools that got you into this that you teach, how are they serving you on an ongoing basis in this relationship?


Macy Matarazzo  35:25

All the time. I mean, this is even new tools come out, I actually have something on my website called the law of attraction toolkit. And it has 50 tools, which I have a list of another 75 tools that I could put in there.


Macy Matarazzo  35:40

And these are the kinds of tools that you just use that take less than five minutes to do or even less than a minute, that are the things I use all the time. And knowing that I can consciously pick up tools and do these practices that create a better life for myself.


Macy Matarazzo  36:05

And like you said, in relationship, I’ve had to come up with new tools, because we are always learning we’re in this now for 10 years. And it’s it’s always fun to find new ways of relating, and encountering different things in life that actually show us how we can support each other in different ways that’s ever going.


Macy Matarazzo  36:37

And just, I think the biggest thing is to know that I can learn and grow. And to remind myself that there’s always possibilities, there’s always choice, there’s always something that you can ask for or get support with or find out that can change things. I don’t believe that there’s ever a block. Yeah, it’s


Heather Clark  37:00

not like, Oh, now I found my person, I’m done. It’s more I know.


Macy Matarazzo  37:07

Well, that was a big shocker for me, because I really did have that misunderstanding when I got into our relationship, and then we were married, and I realized, wow, marriage feels different. And I can’t do some of the things I used to do, which was just run away.


Macy Matarazzo  37:34

And that was the next level. And that’s why I actually changed my program at a certain point, going from a sort of shorter program to a program that now includes three phases. And the third phase is, Wow, I’ve met someone I really like how do I create those foundations?


Macy Matarazzo  37:54

Where we can support each other and create this in a way that works for us? Even if we’ve never seen this relationship in any other relationship before, to actually create a relationship that works for that dynamic?


Heather Clark  38:14

Yeah, I bring that up. Because there are some programs for the dating the get the guy, that kind of a program that people take, they get a guy and they’re like, oh, what have I done?


Macy Matarazzo  38:29

really is and I noticed that because I had all of people find their person. And then guess what, three months later, they’re like, now what do I do with them? And so there are things that are actual skills, they’re learned skills or communication tools, there’s amazing ways that I’ve learned that support me and my relationship in a totally different way.


Macy Matarazzo  38:59

And honestly, we’ve had the biggest life challenges. I mean, everyone has life challenges. I’m not saying minor, the biggest of biggest, but my husband had cancer, his mom is moving out here to live now. So these are big life changes that can actually destroy relationships, if you do not have the consciousness and the skills to be present with each other.


Macy Matarazzo  39:30

And I find that because we have developed this foundation that when these things come up, we rise, we rise to the occasion. And it usually deepens our relationship in amazing ways.


Heather Clark  39:48

Yeah, and it sounds like the key again, being present. And it’s a different type of commitment as well. It feels like it’s a commitment to relate to yourself. to each other to the world, but in in like a responsive way, not a reactive way.


Heather Clark  40:08

So I’m very curious because in my world I’m all about put yourself first, can I wondering, does that work and not only these situations you’re talking about, but in the rest of your work, like, first discover what you require and desire? And then bring it to your partner? Or have you found that there’s a different dynamic that works better?


Macy Matarazzo  40:32

I actually think that that’s a really good rule of thumb is what is it that you need, but also have that awareness of your person, the one of the biggest tools that I’ve found helpful is to be able to let my partner in to my functioning, like, this is what happens for me, when me, you know, when I get stressed, this is what happens for me when I hear you say certain things, so that, then my person can start seeing what is happening, and then we can work on it together.


Macy Matarazzo  41:15

And I do believe that, you know, when you’re choosing for yourself, that ripple tends to benefit everyone else. And that, I know, it can sound selfish, just hearing that. But at the same time, we’re the only one that can know what’s going to work for ourselves. And we can’t expect someone to read our mind or, you know, figure it out unless we’re communicating these things.


Macy Matarazzo  41:43

So there is an aspect of Okay, well, what, what’s here for me, that presence and being able to communicate with another person and knowing that no, other people have their own stuff, too, and that their response is not about you. It’s about them. And so I mean, this, there’s a lot to this.


Macy Matarazzo  42:11

And I will also want to say because I really want, I don’t want to send a message to people that, you know, I’ve got this figured out because I am like, I have plenty of really messy, embarrassing moments and reactive moments and moments I regret and where I’m being bitchy or mean.


Macy Matarazzo  42:37

And what I remind myself is that when I noticed that I can, I can say, Sorry, or I can own it, or I can do something different. It’s, it’s like, we’re not going to, we’re not here to try to get every moment right, we’re here to make choices. And do what we can do to create the greatest possible life. And sometimes we’re gonna screw up and and then we just get to choose again.


Heather Clark  43:11

Love it. And thanks for bringing that up. Because people who aren’t, like, practicing in the personal development world, like you and I are, like, sometimes they get a skewed perception that well, so and so has this all worked out? No, yeah, nobody has this all worked out. Although a lot of times we have developed skills in certain areas that other people find helpful, and we share.


Macy Matarazzo  43:38

Exactly. And it helps me I mean, how much of your work around burnout is about Wow, this really helps me to be aware of my own burnout tendencies for me, I can recognize that I can be you know, really, kind of a jerk sometimes. And am I always the the vision of love? No, I’m not. And it is something that I’m grateful for teaching about and practicing. And, and I’m so happy when I can share these tools because I get to have that reminder.


Heather Clark  44:24

Yeah, and the other thing that I’ve noticed, and perhaps you’ve noticed this as well, is so when I help people create balance, and you know, stress reduction, resilience, building all of that, it’s, it’s like life is like, oh, you’d like to learn more about that. Well, here’s another stressful situation. How would you like to show it like, Oh my god, really? How it works? But it’s like, Ah, geez, okay.


Heather Clark  44:52

Well, I got to either use the tools or quit teaching about it. And probably like you’ve discovered when you Use your own tools that works really well. And then in relationship with other people, you get to see the different applications and just allowing it to be of service to other people. So I lovely.


Heather Clark  45:13

And I really appreciate you bringing your stories and sharing with you sharing with the world out. You’re like, No, I don’t have this all figured out. Because I think that gives space for other people to be like, oh, okay, great. This isn’t about that, right?


Macy Matarazzo  45:28

Because, right look like? Exactly. I mean, I had a client today, who was talking to me, and she’s in the dating phase and, and she had someone text her something. And she said, Well, he said, This, too, will pass.


Macy Matarazzo  45:45

And she the tone of voice of how she was reading the text. Put this nuance on, and I was like, oh, okay, interesting how we can do that. And I was sharing with her because just yesterday, I did a quick text to somebody that was completely misunderstood. And she called me and said, Are you mad at me? And I was thinking, Oh, my goodness, no. And I’m so sorry that I was such a boob that I didn’t know that that could be taken in the way that you took it.


Macy Matarazzo  46:20

So it’s just interesting how much we are just always in it. And it’s okay to mess up. And you can’t do you wrong ever. So you just keep on keepin on. And tools do help.


Heather Clark  46:46

Yeah, yeah, they, yes, they definitely do help. And I love the whole texting example. Because I, I do this for myself. And I encourage friends to do that. And clients and everybody, if you’ve read a text, and you’re having a particular emotional reaction, try reading it with a different tone.


Heather Clark  47:06

Try reading it from a happy place, try reading it from a place and just true. And then just reach out and say, Please clarify your meaning. Like, what did you mean here? I took it like this is was that the intent? And if that was great, you can deal with that. But more times, it’s like, no, they’re like, what, how would you even what? Okay,


Macy Matarazzo  47:29

it’s so amusing isn’t that we used it, I was a theater major. And we used to do this acting game where they would give you one line, like even like this toolpath. And you would say it in all the different emotions. And it just was so funny to hear like, This, too, will pass. And this too will pass, you know, like, hearing them in different ways.


Macy Matarazzo  47:54

And it’s true, like, part of all of this is getting to the space where you’re not having those filters of things don’t work out for me. Everyone’s out to get me or whatever the thing is, the insecurities will take you down.


Heather Clark  48:18

Yeah, I love it. And the different voices and the different tones and the different perspectives really give you a different relationship to what’s being offered. And the different perception because stress is all about perception. It’s all perception.


Heather Clark  48:36

So if there’s if you’re feeling stress, maybe it’s an opportunity to perceive things differently and relate to things differently. You know, I’m not saying every stress can be you just shift your attitude. That’s not what I’m saying.


Heather Clark  48:51

But what I am saying is I did like, try that tool, try it out and see if shifting that can at least help you feel less stressed about it. And then do the relationship and resilience building activity of reaching out and communicating. Is this what you meant? This is how I took it.


Macy Matarazzo  49:09

Yeah, or get on the phone. I mean, certainly with dating so for example, that example of my friend and I, I’ve known her for 10 years. She knows me. People in the dating world.


Macy Matarazzo  49:22

This is why I tell people to you know, you can do some emailing, you can do a little texting, texting is more like hey, are we still meeting for coffee tomorrow, like really basic stuff, and then get on the phone, talk to people do a zoom date, get to the places where you can actually relate to someone because the misunderstandings that can happen in the texting phase are high percentage.


Macy Matarazzo  49:51

So it’s good to kind of be aware of that. And, you know, for me with a good friend, it has a misunderstanding happened just out of the blue, when you don’t even know someone, and you’re maybe afraid that you’re going to get rejected, likely, it’s going to be leaning towards a bias of negativity from that space.


Macy Matarazzo  50:18

So I am helping people to get into that space where they’re safe and secure in themselves, and that they can navigate this dating thing without breaking up with themselves before they even meet someone.


Heather Clark  50:33

And I really like your approach to first developing that internal relationship and clearing the decks and all of that. And in other areas, I’ve seen that when people do that, they tend to show up in a different way. And the misunderstandings don’t happen as often have. Is that something that you’ve noticed for your clients as well?


Macy Matarazzo  50:54

Absolutely, absolutely. It’s just a totally different world. I mean, certainly, if you’re still doing what we talked about right in the beginning, this protection of Oh, I don’t want to get hurt again, then. That’s definitely has a filter that makes you Be on the lookout for problems. Yeah,


Heather Clark  51:26

yeah. And I also like your advice to only use texting sparingly, especially in the beginning and it feels like it’s more about once you’ve built the foundation of the relationship. It can tolerate some misunderstandings but right up front it’s it’s almost like a deep honoring for the possibility of the relationship puts the communication in something where tone can be expressed better and if you’re very lucky, facial expressions as well and be able to get all that information.


Macy Matarazzo  51:55



Heather Clark  51:57

Beautiful. Beautiful so tell me what does it mean to you to be unshakable?


Macy Matarazzo  52:04

Oh, I love that.


Macy Matarazzo  52:07

Really what it means is to to remember that no matter what happens you’re going to be okay.


Heather Clark  52:14

Beautiful. Beautiful. Where can we find you?


Macy Matarazzo  52:22

I have my website that’s a great place to find me. Lots of resources there videos. Free masterclass. And certainly a way to contact me if you want to talk about one on one coaching.


Heather Clark  52:45

Beautiful, fantastic. Thank you so much.


Heather Clark  52:50

This has been such a pleasure.


Macy Matarazzo  52:52

So great. I love this conversation.


Heather Clark  52:58

Thanks so much for listening. I’d love to hear from you. Go to and submit your question, comment, or topic request. May you be unshakable, unstoppable, and vibrant again. Until next time.